Analog Recording

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by TheAmpNerd, Sep 23, 2005.


  1. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    Can anyone tell me which mixer to use
    with phantom power will give me the
    warmerst, most natural tone?

    I'm looking at the Berhingers,
    Phonics, Mackie, and Yamaha.
    I've been told that the price performance
    is better on the Berhinger then the others.

    I'm recording piano and want to keep it
    Analog first, then w/in 24 hours use a studio
    to do the A-D conversion. Once in the digital
    domain it won't degrade.

    I have two A2020 mics.
    These came highly recomended from
    Charles Helpinstill (inventer of the piano
    pick up--some guy named Elton and another
    guy named Billy use them live).

    I also have two SM57 for ambiance.

    Thinking of using a simple Tascam
    2 channel deck for the casette master.

    Can anyone suggest a very good
    4 channel Analog recorder?

    Then go to a studio for the A-D.

    Anyone know what I should look for to get the
    most natural sound with the studio?

    Anything else I should consider?

    This is a first time for me and I'm finally getting the
    chance to do it.
     
  2. tedm

    tedm Gold Supporting Member

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    behringer mx602a if you can find one.


     
  3. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    What are its features?
     
  4. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    I'd forget recording 4 tracks of piano - two should be just fine, but you'll have to get the positioning correct.

    I'd also forget going analog, unless you can afford, as well as know how to maintain, a professional quality 2-track machine, with Otari being entry level.

    The consoles you mentioned are going to negate any of the dubious benefits of going analog, IMHO. Behringer and Phonic are below entry-level, Mackie and Yamaha are one step above, as far as recording. None of them will give you a "warm, natural" sound.

    I'd invest in a pair of the nicest, clean pres you can afford. The FMR RNP would be a starting point, go up from there - a pair of John Hardy M1 pres would really blow your skirt up! <g>

    I'm not familiar w/the A2020 mic, who makes it? I'd also not skip here - get the absolute best you can afford.

    Good Luck,

    Loudboy
     
  5. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    Yes going to test it first and see.
    what positions work. I'm NOT recording this from the
    audience POV (Point of view) rather close in in what
    the artist hears.

    I just don't like the sound of a
    digital master. I lwould prefer going analog and then
    have a studio lay the A-D tracks.
    Nuts.
    So I assume you are talking
    a pre amp here. Would that be also a mic amp?
    Audio Technica; I know that is what I was thinking too.
    They come highly recommended from Charlie Helpinstill to use for recording piano, so what can I say. Here is his web site, and I've known Charlie professionally. what do you think? Http://members.aol.com/realpiano/index.htmlProbably listen to him, he has a big brain
    and the biggest guys use his stuff live.
     
  6. HammyD

    HammyD Supporting Member

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    I have been thinking about the same sort of recording set up as I have an opportunity to record a friend, a mentor who is terminally ill. I want to be able to record him in the least intrusive manner with the highest quality.

    I, too, have some concerns as to the digital recording aspect but more a quesiton of logistics. I discovered that SVHS Video deck, using their hi fi audio tracks are "near CD" quality.

    The thought is to determine which mics and pre's and then record to digital with an analog backup set of tracks. I would rent the equipment as needed and we have secured the use of a Bosendorfer at a local college ...

    I am leaning towards Wes Dooley's Ribbon Mic's (AEA 84's) with the Grace 101 pre's and an Apogee Mini Me A/D convertor to a Imac, as well as the anaologs to the Panasonic SVHS 7750.
     
  7. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    Digital at 44.1/24 or 48/24 through a nice set of converters is going to give you all the fidelity you'll be able to handle, especially if you're not recording in a great-sounding room in a pro studio or concert hall.

    I'd say stick to digital, unless you can get a pro 1/4" or 1/2" 2-track deck to use. I wouldn't bother w/SVHS. "Near CD-quality" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. If you want analog, go all the way.

    Another option may be to track digitally, at a high sample/bit rate, and then have the studio do an analog bounce, in controlled situations, where you can control how much "analog warmth" you want.

    The AT-2020 sounds like it's a decent mic, but once again, it's an entry-level LDC and is designed, marketed and priced as such. In some rooms, with some players and a certain piano, it may indeed be the best solution, but then again, so might your SM-57. Or a tin can and a string. <g>

    Piano may be the hardest instrument to record - you owe it to yourselves to research the topic a little more and see what's out there and what a variety of pro's are using. Here's a good place to start:

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro

    Do a search for "recording acoustic piano" and see what's out there.

    Loudboy
     
  8. Antero

    Antero Member

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    You're talking entry level gear here, and you're not gonna be able to squeeze a studio-quality sound out of that.

    If you're just doing the piano tracks... the RNP would be a good place to start, really. It's going to give you a FAR better sound than any entry level board.
     
  9. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    Hmmm,
    looked at that RNP. It looks interesting and from what
    I've read and what you've turned me on to, just
    might be the ticket in a MIC Pre.

    So, if I use the RNP, what would you recommend
    as a recording source? I'm not doing this in a studio,
    i'm recording it in a church.

    James, sounds great with that Bosendorfer that you've
    got a hold of. I wish I could find one here in Dallas
    in a church somewhere.

    I went to Steinway-Hall here locally and did a once over
    of their pianos. I left dissapointed. Perhaps it was the
    crummy room they had them in. None sounded "right"
    to me.

    I'm going to try and find a RNP locally, I wonder if
    anyone rents these out along with a top quality
    deck.

    I'm all ears folks, anything else I should know/be
    thinking about?
     
  10. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    >> I went to Steinway-Hall here locally and did a once over
    of their pianos. I left dissapointed. Perhaps it was the
    crummy room they had them in. None sounded "right"
    to me.

    New Steinways have always sounded less than wonderful. They hit their stride after 10 - 12 years.
     
  11. TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    I've seen a few Sony APR-5000's sell for around $500. If it were me, I'd use a Tascam dv-ra1000, but then it's not analog.
     
  12. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    Well so far everyone
    seems to be correct.

    However I'm recording digital
    from Mackie mixer to Tascam DA20
    MK II.

    It just doesn't sound right for some reason.

    I need to listen to it on my reference system and
    see how it actually sounds.
     
  13. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    with the limited budget U have, analog would be a HUGE mistake.
    however, Ur mackie/tascam should be a bit better but not a great solution.
    if U want really good sound, rent the stuff U need.
    if U've never miced a piano before, U're already in over Ur head. they are beasts to capture well.
    if U want a close up performers perspective, i'd use a coincident pair a few feet above the the piano in the centre w/ the mics pointing a foot below the hammers for starters. be willing to move the mics closer or further to get the results U want. U can also aim the mics more towards the hammers if U want.
    hey, just 'cuz a rperson is in over their head doesn't mean that they can't learn how to swim, right?
     
  14. TheAmpNerd

    TheAmpNerd Member

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    Right

    Trying to float first.
    Once I get that down,
    then tred water second.
    Once I get that down,
    then learn some strokes third.
    Once I get that down,
    then learn to breathe and stroke
    (also called swimming).
     
  15. µ¿ z3®ø™

    µ¿ z3®ø™ Member

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    yup.
    just remember......
    music (and recording) should be fun.
    and experience is a very good (if frustrating) teacher.
    lemme know how things work out.
     

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