Analog vs Digital Modeling

[gregrjones]

Recently, I have purchased a Joyo British pedal, which is a knock-off of the Tech 21 British. I'm amazed at the improvement of this pedal, which does Marshall amp model, over my Line 6 Pod HD500 Marshall amp models.

What I'm hearing is the Joyo has a more open sound and 'feel'. The Line 6 feels compressed, has too much bottom end & feels a little dull in the high end.

I'm thinking about using the Joyo for my amp model & the Pod just for effects unless I find that the digital signal path of the Line 6 were to cause some of the artifacts I speak of.

I'm curious if any others share such opinions comparing analog to digital modelers? I haven't been able to try upper end stuff like Axe-FX nor do I plan on making such an investment..... so I can't speak of them, but the Youtubes I hear comparing them to the Line 6 don't tell my ears that there is a difference worth investing in....

 

[RLD]

What's important is how you feel about it.
They are lots of folks who can't bond with modelers and lots of folks who get great results and are completely happy.
Find what works for you and don't worry about anything else is my philosophy.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Disclaimer: I have a huge personal chip on my shoulder about knock-off/clones.

That said, IMHO, it is unfortunate that the knock-offs can define anything for you; I'd suggest actually trying the Tech 21 British to your Joyo.

I have used a Tech 21 British Character pedal for many years as my backup 'rig' in an emergency to my full blown modeling direct-to-FOH rig that I normally use (Fractal Axe-FX II --> Atomic CLR Neo) so my normal rig is what is considered higher end comparatively.

The British pedal was replaced by the Tech 21 FlyRig5, which sounds just as good but offers more - more tones, and some basic effects. It's great.

How do they compare to the high end rig? They sound fine, they work fine, they are dependable. Just like my high end rig. Does it truly compare as a rig (backup vs "A" rig) for me? No; but that's my opinion and that's no surprise to me; I bought them to do what they do. They do it well.

If you feel that *your* "A-Rig" isn't doing 'it' for you, then change the "A-Rig" up, just as you have. Find what works and use it.

If you like the Tech 21 stuff better than the POD, then use the POD for effects the the Tech 21 for tones. That's great; it's better serving your needs and that's all that matters.

My only other comment (that I state often and it still pisses people off (and makes me chuckle)) is to not judge gear solely on YouTube demos/clips, etc.. Try them firsthand before you form your actual opinion of them. Treat clips and YouTube videos for what they are - as data points. Nothing beats in the moment hands-on actual personal experience with gear and anyone trying to convince themselves otherwise is selling themselves short. Not everyone can try everything; but lacking actual experience with something is not made up by Internet sound bites and video clips. The clips and videos are helpful and useful, no question about that. But just as internet forum posts and opinions are just data points (my posts included), so are clips and videos... data points. Squarely my opinion, but take it for just that also.

In the end, we are all either using what works for us or looking for what works better for us. Some of us get 'there' and just make the most of what we have, some of us are still looking for the ideal 'fit' for what inspires us to play better. Find what you love and play the crap out of it; forget the rest or what anyone else thinks of your choices.

 

[shawnshack]

Sometimes I use a Tech 21 Blonde instead of the HD500 amp sims.

 

[Alnico&El34Rocks]

I prefer analog amp modeling to digital. However, i have not personally tried kemper or axe fx products which I know are highly regarded. I have tech 21 character pedals(briitish character v1 and v2,blonde v1 and liverpool v1) , a gni amp simulator, and an amt e1.

I also have several amt drive pedals (o drive, p drive and b drive) that i use in front of tube amp (like palomino 16 or jet city 2212)

 

[chrisjw5]

Greg, I just wrote a really long piece on ditching my HD500 for Tech 21 as part of a thread where I gave away my patches.

 

[Pietro]

I tried to like the Tech 21 stuff better than the HD 500, but couldn't.

It's not a bad solution by any stretch, but for my ears, and the tones I wanna make, the POD wins every time.

I also share Scott's "chip on the shoulder" about knock-offs, too.

 

[Tmidiman]

I have a Pod HD, all 4 Joyo character pedals, and have other Modelers and an amp that hasa modeler.

For my ears I don't care for the HD units at all. Too much tweaking for a tone that never feels right.

For the Marshall I have to admit I haven't done a deep comparison. I will this weekend. For the Mesa Boogie, I prefer and old Pod, but for the Vox the Joyo AC Tone kills! It's so clean and crisp the digital modelers don't stand a chance.

Overall it always comes down to what works for you.

 

[gearscrubs]

I think whatever gets you the results you want is what you should use. I have several of the Tech 21 Character & Joyo pedals, a couple of the Yamaha THR amps, Amplitube & S-gear software, several tube amps, and a Cabclone. They are all capable of producing great results in the right context and I don't hesitate to use any of them.

 

[Tmidiman]

On the side topics....

I started building and designing effects in 1981. Working with some of the original effects from back in the day. I have no problem buying effects from China or any other country. The designers from the 60's and 70's were ripped off by almost everyone after them. I buy American too, if they charge a reasonable price.

Youtube clips? They have given me enough information to make a decision on buying pedals I would like. Sure there are some cheaply done demos with bad sound quality, but there are many that are just fine. Never been burned or dissapointed.

But again you have to trust your own ears, and purchase with your own wallet.

 

[shredmiyagi]

I share the sentiments on the knock off stuff. If it's crap I don't buy it, but the Joyo stuff is solid. My knock-off MIJ Strat from the early 80s is my #1... Nothing wrong with your choice. As far as the ethics go, I care about the issue and try to support domestic products, but it's hard to dismiss the fact that my Apple, Eventide, and Fender stuff is all foreign made... So hard to be down on companies like Behringer and Joyo who offer the same thing at half the price.

 

[The Interceptor]

All this Joyo talk makes me want to gamble $45 (Aus) on a Joyo British and see how that compares with my RP360XP and my 11R. I've tried just about everything cheaper than an 11R and my head tells me that the Joyo would be inferior. Could be wrong though...but if not, then I'd need a reverb pedal, plus I'd have to put my TS-9 in front of it...and a wah, etc. I guess I could use the RP360XP up front (or after), but that just seems silly...

...and yet, I remain tempted.

 

[gregrjones]

After extensive testing with my Joyo British against my Line 6 Pod HD500 Marshall equivalents, the Joyo kills them to my ears.

The Pod's models sound too bassy, compressed and either dull in the high end or sometimes have a subtle digital sharpness in the high end that doesn't sound natural to me and is always an audio clue that I'm using a modeler.

 

[jdalf]

I think Peavey did a good job with the Vypyr amps, amp models are analog, effects are digital. Quick and easy for me to get tones I like.

I have a HD500 which I like, but not so quick and easy tone crafting.

 

[The Interceptor]

I couldn't help it and ordered one. Expect a report by the end of the week.

If it's positive, I can see me grabbing the American...and California...darn it.

 

[glepko]

I like a Vox style model for "clean" tones with a strat, took 20 years to realize I am not a Fender cleans snob, I like the little bit of grit, bark and bite of a British flavored amp.

At one point I had the G3, RP360, and Joyo AC Tone here. Two guitarists with more discerning ears and tastes than what I was gifted both agree - the Joyo is the choice for that tone.

I don't care for any current digital stuff for JCM tones. However, I find the JTM styles are pretty good and in line with the Sansamp stuff, as arethe Fender and Mesa flavors. YMMV

 

[Eagle1]

The difference between normal and high end digital is even bigger than digital to analog.

 

[MONSTER ZERO]

The difference between normal and high end digital is even bigger than digital to analog.

If I spent that kind of coin on some high falootin digital rig I suppose I'd probably repeat that line to myself every day.

 

[andybaylor]

Digital modeling will never touch analog modeling. It's always late sounding.

Digital modeling can't translate the "crack of the whip" feel like analog can.

Sorry Charlie, it ain't Starkist quality.

 

[andybaylor]

The British pedal was replaced by the Tech 21 FlyRig5, which sounds just as good but offers more - more tones, and some basic effects.

I preferred the British. The FlyRig5 sounded weak in comparison. IMO, of course.