And speaking of speed and single string technique...

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Ed DeGenaro, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
  2. stratovarius

    stratovarius Supporting Member

    Messages:
    9,024
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    ... I should have paid more attention to technique while going through puberty. :(
     
  3. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    Just means you played sports more. :)
     
  4. stratovarius

    stratovarius Supporting Member

    Messages:
    9,024
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    ... yes, uh ... sports. I played sports 3 times a day back then. :eek:
     
  5. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    I think we all did.
     
  6. duckbunny

    duckbunny Member

    Messages:
    3,532
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Location:
    This side of Buridan's Ass.
    When I was younger, speed was the thing that held the most sway with me. I was absolutely dazzled by technique. While it is impressive to hear a Shawn Lane, DiMeola, Malmsteem, etc. run rapid lines, and I can appreciate the amount of time and effort it took to get to the point where one could operate an ibstrument in such a manner, I try to remember...

    Kenny G. has chops that Lester Young never had.

    As I matured, I came to realize that it really is about what you are saying.
    Funny, we never speak of such a dyad when discussing writing, or painting for that matter. Why music? Do we compare the technical use of the English language vis a vis Alexander Pope and Studs Terkel? How about Rafael vs Kandinsky for "technical" ability? Never. It's almost always (rightfully) about content.
    Perhaps the quest for technical mastery is consuming. The guitar can be a pig of an instrument, sometimes - especially when it comes to some fingerings and especially reading for the instrument :)

    Just some desultory rambling...


    -db
     
  7. HEY!YOU!

    HEY!YOU! Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,795
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Location:
    COLORADO
    Kenny G...........are you kidding.
     
  8. duckbunny

    duckbunny Member

    Messages:
    3,532
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Location:
    This side of Buridan's Ass.
    I got to talk "music" with him at a studio about 13 yrs ago (nice guy, by the way, even though I dislike his "music") and believe me, he can rip... notes coming out of the horn at light speed - seriously.

    However...

    My point is : who cares how fast a shallow stream runs?

    By his own admission Bud Powell was no Art Tatum, techique-wise but oh my!!!

    Sometimes, on a very rare occasion, the rapid waters do run deep - eg Coltrane. Still, even when I listen to 'Trane, it's the sheer depth, beauty, profundity, spirituality and consistent genius that amazes me. I think that's what we all, as musicians, strive for - Witness BB King, The Beatles, Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, etc.

    Just my .02


    best,
    -db
     
  9. duckbunny

    duckbunny Member

    Messages:
    3,532
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Location:
    This side of Buridan's Ass.
    ROTFLMAO! :D :D :D
    Sorry strato...I must be a little slow on the uptake today!
     
  10. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    Except the one doesn't necessarily have snything to do with the other.
    I can find it interesting that a guy clocked the speed of a bunch of guys without wnating to be AlDiMeola...
    Just thought I might turn some folks on to it. Yet as always the same old clichees pop up.
     
  11. duckbunny

    duckbunny Member

    Messages:
    3,532
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Location:
    This side of Buridan's Ass.
    I was just rambling on about the technique and content dyad, I didn't want to imply anything, or bring up any corny 'cliches.'
    Living as I do, here in academia, I guess that I take first examining the realm of the abstract for granted.
    FWIW, I really enjoyed the sound clips you've previously posted, and thank you for turning me onto that clip.
    I apologize if I in any way offended.


    best
    -db
     
  12. RichardB

    RichardB Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,335
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Hey Ed,
    I cant be bothered to d/load theclips. So who is the cleanest/quickest. I really think Di Meola would have to be up there, way up there. I know there are plenty of lattr day speed demons in the rock/metal/fusion world, but I still suspect Al has 'em all beat with how clean he plays. Never heard anyone that quick and clean. What say you?
     
  13. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    Funnily enough no.
    Al Di ended up clocked at 15 notes per second.
    The fast majority of latter day speed stuff, and funnily enough I'm included on that list are at 16, as well as Paco DeLucia.
    Fastest on it is Shawn Lane at 19. However I don't think it's right becuase I like to think I know Shawn's approach well enough that at that tempo he didn't pik all the notes.
     
  14. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    Not offended at all...just wanted to make sure this didn't turn into "that" feeling vs. speed type thread.
     
  15. RichardB

    RichardB Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,335
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Your post prompted to me to d/load and listen. I really think some of the stuff is actually not a fair representation at all. I still think diMeola is the cleanest of everyone. He should have grabbed that fast section of Al's Race on Highway...Some of the guys are really not clean AT ALL...
     
  16. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    That's a given...both about Al and right hand in general.

    That said I have not listened to it. Just looked at the results.
    I know the example of mine he used wasn't the cleanest I've played.

    Beside the point though, Al can play lines at that speed, whereas it seems the purpose of that whole exercise was to see right hand tremolo speed.
     
  17. 900

    900 Member

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    What is "tremolo" or "elbow picking"?

    From looking at the vid of "shredmikael", he seems to move the picking hand less and less the faster he plays....contrary to, dunno, "wirst pickers" like Al Di Meola etc.

    Any slow tempo vids about those techniques?
     
  18. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

    Messages:
    18,665
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    Malibu
    tremolo=fast repeating note.
    elbow=spastic picking with no control done by tensing up the arm and releasing it.
     
  19. KRosser

    KRosser Member

    Messages:
    14,147
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Recognizing a certain amount of tongue-in-cheekness about all of this, but:

    This comparison ONLY works if we can make the assumption that Al, Paco, and Shawn made a point of playing as fast and as clean as they possibly could on a recording. What kind of A-hole makes a record to document how fast they can play, or makes it a point to have an example on a recording of themselves playing as fast as they possibly can?

    I'm doing some self-recording now, I think I'm gonna strive to be at the very bottom of that list...let it be known here and now: I wanna be the slowest guitarist in recorded history...

    Everybody wish me luck....
     
  20. KRosser

    KRosser Member

    Messages:
    14,147
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Absolute bull-oney...

    One can only make this assumption if your only definition of chops is "velocity of single note articulation".
     

Share This Page