another gibson nitro question !*!*!

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by ssdeluxe, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. ssdeluxe

    ssdeluxe Member

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    anybody know if the newer more "plasticised" stuff gibson is using as of late will ever dry out and harden ??

    its not a major issue, but I just don't like the "plastic" sorta gummy feel of it....been spoiled by old nitro that has a very hard crystaline surface that lets the wood breath, my impression of the newer gibby finishes is that: it somehow mutes slightly the tone.....not major, but when you've been spoiled ...kinda bugs..

    let me know if anyone might now if this stuff hardens over time and is able to check ??

    also, would any exposure to uv or elements for a few years help the dry out process along ?

    thanks in advance.
     
  2. go7

    go7 Member

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    All or most of any production Nitro is a modern mix of driers hardeners etc. Not to be confused with old nitro or nitro finishes that Heatley ,Thorn etc. use.I don`t think any of the big guys are going to spend 3-4 months to put on a finish allowing drying time.Ron Kirn did a blurb about this very topic.In short, they are different products with different results. YOMV.
     
  3. ssdeluxe

    ssdeluxe Member

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    will this stuff eventually harden and dry ??..and or check (hoping) ?

    or will it stay "plastic like".


    what I'm wondering essentially is: will this plasticized modern nitro exhibit the nice hard/aged properties of the old nitro after some time (yrs...months..???)
     
  4. Julia343

    Julia343 Member

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    Well, the finish on my SG is nice and dry and not sticky at all. Of course it's a 2006 model and was so when I bought it.
     
  5. Ron Kirn

    Ron Kirn Gold Supporting Member

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    Therein lies the problem. Putting a quality finish on a guitar is the most time consuming piece of the manufacturing process. They just aren’t going to wait the weeks it takes for real nitro to harden to a point where it can be polished.

    The problem is, the legend of the vintage formulation Nitrocellulose finishes (fact or fiction will be another discussion please) has prompted the guitar manufacturers to look for a way to call the paint they are using Nitrocellulose while still enjoying the speed of production found in the new concoctions they have been using.

    So a consortium of Lawyers, Marketing executives, Chemists, etc etc… devised a method to do just that. The results, while legally may be called nitrocellulose, are as similar to the Nitrocellulose we THINK we are getting and calling all 4 wheel rides a vehicle, then advertising a Ford F 150 in a manner that makes you think you are getting a Porsche. (not to diss the Ford, or the Porsche, both are excellent at what they do.)

    Anyone paying extra for “Thin Skin” Or Nitrocellulose .. shame…. They got taken by the Caveat Emptor weasel clause.

    Guys keep forgetting, the guitar manufacturers are not in business to make guitars, they are in business to make money, they do so by making guitars and selling them.

    See, here’s the main difference, no one at the large guitar manufacturers that are making the big decisions, loves, or probably even knows HOW to make guitars, they do know how to make money, which is why they are in the corporate offices, wearing the 3000.00 suits, Me, and my counterparts, the boutique builders, do love and know how, to make guitars, that directly impacts the quality of the guitar you get….. directly.

    If ya wanna name, I can understand, but you should buy it from someone that owns, it, but if you want maximum bang for the buck in a superb guitar, you should look elsewhere. Let’s see, what is the URL of my website???? :)


    Ron Kirn
     
  6. HammyD

    HammyD Member

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    I recall reading that Heritage Guitars were still using the old formula as permitted by a "grandfather" clause from the old Gibson factory. Could soneone verify or clarify this?
     
  7. paddywhack

    paddywhack Silver Supporting Member

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    ......i can tell you that the 339 i purchased factory fresh last fall hardened considerably in the following months...i don't know the formula they use but .i feel certain that it will get even harder over time and evntually check like "old school" nitro finishes....i'm a woodworker and have sprayed various finishes for a couple of decades...the formulas have improved over the years but nitro cellulose is still a relatively slow drying finish that will take time to harden, become brittle and develop the aged patina that some find so attractive...myself included....
     
  8. Bob V

    Bob V Member

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    No, no please don't confuse us with the facts from a rational and experienced point of view. We really don't want to know anything about wood finishes because in our world, wood "breathes." What you have to do is overuse the word "plastic" and pretend that brand name manufacturers are evil. Then you can post whatever you want and we'll eat it up.
     
  9. daddyo

    daddyo Guest

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    Maybe I'm weird but I like the soft glow of a nice hand rubbed lacquer finish but I don't want finish checks in my guitars unless it was a nice vintage 57 Goldtop. I'm happy if I buy a Les Paul and 40 years from now it has no finish checks.
     
  10. mainsale

    mainsale Member

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    This is a really intereting thread to me as I noticed the soft finish on a recent Gibson 339 & SG '67 Special that I got. I've noticed that the 339 finish has firmed up a bit over the months but the Sg is still very soft and therefore vulnerable. I thought is was just me but I guess I'm not the only one. I'm just going to leave the Sg in the case for some month and hope that it firms up too. I know it does not have to be like this as a TCM Terrycaster that I got has a new Nitrocellulous finish and it was/as hard as a rock from the first day of ownership and Yes, TCM is certainly a high end boutique guitar builder.
     
  11. magnido45

    magnido45 Member

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    I noticed when I got my '07 Gibson Standard LP...the finish stayed soft and sticky for months because I kept her in the case after every session...the finish has hardened over time significantly now since I decided to keep her out to air dry regularly on a stand...
     
  12. Structo

    Structo Member

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    Yes, I don't understand how Fender did it in the old days since a newly finished guitar in nitro will take on imprints from a case if it hasn't cured sufficiently.
    On the guitars that I have finished in nitro I let them cure for 30 days before I wet sand and polish and they still are fairly soft.
     
  13. Trebor Renkluaf

    Trebor Renkluaf I was hit by a parked car, what's your excuse? Gold Supporting Member

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    I will say this about Gibson nitro vs. Fender nitro.
    I had some masking tape on two guitars: A Fender strat RI body I was shielding and a CS-336 I was doing a pickup swap on. When I removed the tape from the Fender it had reacted with the nitro and left marks, and no this wasn't just adhesive residue. The finish was damaged where the tape was, similar to when a nitro guitar sits on a surgical rubber guitar stand, only not as bad. I had to go to 600 grit sandpaper to get the marks out - no buffing compound would touch them. I was freaking out as I actually had the tape on the CS-336 longer. I took the tape off, cleaned up the adhesive residue with goof off and not a mark to be seen. So I would say Gibson is doing something to their nitro that Fender is not.
     

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