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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by the Tick, Sep 9, 2016.
What does the National Anthem have to do with football?
I would not even remotely compare the two.
The commercial was making light of 9/11. The NFL guy was quietly sitting, letting others participate in a ceremony he did not wish to participate in.
Not wanting to challenge anyone else's opinion.....just stating mine. No disrespect meant towards anyone.
You are certainly free to. I guess I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, instead I think it is wroth listening to what he has to say.
I think in his statements he has been.
Sure, you are free to disagree with him, and you are free to take offense at it, I just dont see why anyone would get worked up over some perceived disrespect of a piece of cloth, I am more interested in the reasoning he provides for the protest, which was supposed to be controversial so people would pay attention, in that respect I think it worked. Collin has donated and promised to continue donating money to the causes he is standing up for, he is helping bring those issues into a national dialogue.
People say he is disrespecting the troops, but I dont see it that way, I see it more as he is standing up (sitting down) for the very causes they fight for, freedom, justice and equality for all. You may find his methods misguided, that is fine, you may disagree with his perceived injustices, that is fine, but I guess I just dont see the need to get worked up about whether he sits or stands for a song. To me that seems more like lip service respect as opposed to actual respect.
That's a good question. why play it at the beginning of a football game. One has nothing to do with the other.
What does any country's anthem have to do with any sport? Yet many societies, including the US, choose to go through that ritual. Perhaps it started as an attempt to foster COUNTRY level unity.
Where do you want to start?
Standing for the anthem may indeed be 'lip service respect', but when you make a conspicuous point of not doing it in protest, it is clearly and by design not reciprocally meaningless.
I agree with the rest of your post, and fully support K's right to express his 1st amendment rights, especially in conjunction with the anthem that celebrates those rights.
I think this is the heart of it. I think Kaep's point is that the idealism of our values doesn't measure up to the reality of the current situation (by quite a lot).
Is his chosen venue the best way to make that point? I don't know. But I also sincerely doubt his point is that he "hates the troops".
Our vets and active duty soldiers fight so that we *can* publicly protest things we think should be changed. But then when people exercise that right, we say they are disrespecting the troops that fought for that right? Makes no sense to me. The bigger shame would be to have the right and not exercise it. People have died for that right; we should make the most of it. That's my take anyway.
Actually, I'm #1...
Note: I have never, and will never again make a Star Trek reference.
Sure, but I am not sure the meaning has to be disrespect for the troops.
I'm still trying to figure out what it has to do with the 9/11 mattress commercial.
I'm glad we are both able to express our opinions. I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this issue. Over simplifying the description of the US flag as simply a "piece of cloth" is as disrespectful to me as someone saying certain derogatory words are "just simple words so why should anyone get worked up about them?", or desecrating someone's grave and saying "it's just a stone."
The flag means a more to a lot of folks than just the cloth it's made from.
I could see how troops, especially veterans who are present at the time could reasonably take some offense, but I'm not sure about a broader argument that it disrespects troops generally, any more than any other American. Defer to the troops on that, and their opinions probably vary.
Troops didn't fight and die for the quashing of all forms of protest of the status quo. On the contrary, this whole American Revolution thing started over precisely that.
I think what the flag symbolizes means a lot. The flag itself? not so sure. I have a flag in my office actually. What the flag seems to symbolize to me is in part the very thing Kaep is doing and has the right to do.
The poster said "There seems to be a legitimate argument that the ideology behind the anthem is not being lived up to on a national scale."
The lyrics used at sporting events are as follows below. Of course I'm curious as to which of these verses we are not living up to on a national scale, or what ideology you believe the US is not generally living up to.
Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
Americans love to get offended! We live to be outraged! Let's all get our panties in a GREAT BIG WAD!
This mattress store is here in San Antonio. It is a very small, Mom & Pop organization, and they are competing with another local company who makes their own commercials. The other company's commercials are cheesy, but fun and entertaining. These poor schmucks got in over their heads. (Like when kid cousins get together at X-mas and put on a show for their parents, but with no planning and no skills. It almost always comes out bad.)
If the average persons IQ is 100, then 1/2 of the world is dumber than that... These were some semi stupid people who made their own commercial and it blew up in their faces. Nothing more than that. I feel sorry for them. The poor woman is fat, ugly and now the whole country is angry with her. I say, cut her some slack, and let this blow over. I hope their business can survive this publicity.
That last line is a question. Does that flag wave over our country or is the country torn apart? Or has it become something else? Is our real country the country of our ideals? That's the same question that Koapernick (sp) is asking.
(sorry about the spelling...I never heard of this guy until this controversy hit the news a couple weeks ago.)
So the song is merely talking about the war of 1812?
I think there is a larger current of themes it represents, notably start with the last line.
The silly thing to me about the anthem issue is that it seems like the people offended by it just want him to stand up next time......they don't seem to actually care that he doesn't feel it.
In other words, the people offended by him not standing appear as if they would be fine with him standing and not meaning it .
If it was really about him being patriotic, I would think you would want it to be genuine.
Isn't faking it more offensive than just sitting down quietly until its over?