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Anyone compare Emi GB12s vs Scum G12Ms vs Cel G12M25 RIs?

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547
I know everyone loves the Scumbacks, but I'd like to hear from people who have compared them side by side with the others.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547

Sparky6string

Member
Messages
3,721
Yes, I did see that ... but it uses the Private jack rather than the GB12, uses pre-rola rather than RI, and was done by a company selling speakers rather than an individual. Not saying there's bias, but I'd bet they didn't set the amps up tweeked to the tone of the PJ ... nor would I expect them to.
Yeah that's a problem I have with those clips also. I've never ever heard a PJ sound like that- that is not at all representative of a Private Jack.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,874
Wow, not what I would call a fair shake being given to me here!

First off, there were no GB12's four years ago to by, they'd been discontinued according to OCSR, that's where I bought the Private Jack for this test.

Second, I did not setup the amps, nor did I do the recordings. I only supplied the gear, as did Dan Boul from 65 Amps.

Third, as far as was their a fair EQ setting given to each speaker, hell yes there was. What we recorded was "what it was". If the speaker didn't perform well with a London, 69 Marshall, a Strat or a Les Paul, then it was the speaker that had the problem, not the amp/guitar/player or engineer.

Fourth, if the Private Jack doesn't sound like your Private Jack, I'm not surprised. I thought it sounded fugly. When I took it back to OCSR, they tested it and said it wasn't voice coil rub, but it did have cone cry. When they handed me another to replace it, it too had cone cry. So I'm afraid that's representative of a Private Jack's tone on two different new speakers. The one used in the tests got 20 hours of stereo break in before being recorded so if it had issues, then it got them where others broken in the same way did not. A 20w stereo pumping classic rock through four speakers (I did four at a time, mind you, not individually) didn't fry any, that's for sure.

Fifth, since this was a test replicating tone of old pre-rola Greenbacks, the G12M RI, GB12, and whatever else mentioned were not considered to be in that category of tone. That's why they weren't included.

Sixth, and finally, insinuating there are/were integrity and honesty issues of Andy Z, Dan Boul, myself and the others who did the mic placement, setting, recording and line leveling of these clips is just completely crap. I wouldn't be involved in any type of subterfuge, nor would I slant the test recordings in my favor. That's why I had other people, unpaid and unbiased do the recordings.

If I'd wanted to do something like that, I sure as hell would have just recorded it all over at a buddy's house locally instead of driving 45 miles up to Hollywood to have an impartial and fair recording test.

Be advised that when asked, not one other speaker manufacturer represented sent a speaker for this, nor did they send a rep to be a part of it. Dan Boul being a Celestion OEM client did supply the Heritages, and I bought the others for the test myself.

Gulliver and Sparky 6 String:
Frankly, I think voicing these concerns and misgivings 4 years later is blatantly chickenshit, and if I've offended you, well, guess what? You've offended me, too.
 

Sparky6string

Member
Messages
3,721
Gulliver and Sparky 6 String:
Frankly, I think voicing these concerns and misgivings 4 years later is blatantly chickenshit, and if I've offended you, well, guess what? You've offended me, too.
That's ok Jim- think whatever you want to. My only problem with the test is that the speaker I know the best in it doesn't sound like the speaker I know at all. You wanna get all excited over that go ahead. FYI I also own 2 Scumbacks.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,874
That's ok Jim- think whatever you want to. My only problem with the test is that the speaker I know the best in it doesn't sound like the speaker I know at all. You wanna get all excited over that go ahead. FYI I also own 2 Scumbacks.
I think your post was pretty clear that you suspect that Andy Z and the others slanted this test in my favor. Considering that it was a BLIND TEST there wasn't anyway to know who was going to be the winner in this test. If you think the PJ is a better speaker, that's fine, but with what was supplied to me brand new was lacking four years ago, that's what this test fairly represents.

Speaker companies make improvements as they go along. If the PJ's cone cry issues were apparent in 2 new speakers four years ago, that represented what they offered four years ago. I didn't pick out a bad one, sir, I bought what was available like any other consumer in 2005. If they've changed the recipe since then, or addressed issues they had four years ago, that's great! However, four years ago, the two speakers I bought brand new sounded like what you heard, period.

The fact is that you've insinuated there was some bias on the part of the testers and recording engineers and there just wasn't any. So I'll think (and rightfully so) that you've insulted everyone involved in this.

Feel free to buy every speaker involved in the test, get all the amps/cabs/guitars/players together and re-record it all if you think that will be a fair option, but that's your call.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547
/\ Me thinks you shouldn't be so defensive ... but I do apologize for assuming you don't adjust amps to competing speakers. I think that's the only controversy here. My company publishes computer benchmarks and is totally bias in it's marketing documentation, it's expected in the industry. If you don't, I give you all the credit in the world.

Really, I'm not looking for clips, just want to hear from someone who's owned at least two of the above speakers and can describe how close they are from each other.

I don't own a Scumback, but will probably try one eventually.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,874
Gulliver, I'm from the computer industry, too. But I was an independent digital video consultant/tech who went out onsite to fix other people's systems put together by others. Generally most of them weren't configured properly and had performance/reliability issues. So I hear you about how some companies slant their findings in their favor (vaporware, hard drive access specs, etc.), it's all too common.

When I did that full time, I made many other companies unhappy when I had to ask the client to buy the right hardware to do what they wanted. Consequently, I wound up getting a lot of referral business to other studios, producers and editing houses when their systems malfunctioned. I've had to sign so many non-disclosure contracts it isn't funny, and some specify damages in millions if I divulge any of my work (Barbra Streisand, Robert Zemeckis, Sony Studios, etc.) or the footage I saw.

So when I approached doing this speaker comparison test, I made sure to have totally unbiased folks/participants involved just to make sure it was a fair test. No one got paid (ok they got lunch paid by me, big whoop!) for their efforts and it was a 12 hour day.

If you need some info on the GB12 tone, I can't help you, sorry. I gave my only one away to a guy who needed a speaker, and I've never bought one since I came out with my own line of speakers. Good luck with that comparison.
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547
/\ Very cool. I work for ATTO Technology ... if you worked in the video industry, you probably ran into our SCSI and fibre channel products from time to time.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,874
/\ Very cool. I work for ATTO Technology ... if you worked in the video industry, you probably ran into our SCSI and fibre channel products from time to time.
I've owned several! And they're also the only ones that worked reliably in the Media 100, FCP and AVID systems I've had to work on. Most of that is pretty much behind me now, but I've still got five Media 100 editing systems in storage.

I'll tell you what, I've had less hassle with your scsi adapters than anyone else's, that's for sure!
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547
I just looked you up in our database, we last talked in 2001, I was your salesman. Small world!
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,547
LOL, I am accountable to tell the truth, whoopee! LOL

You probably don't have my new website (hasn't changed in years) then.

www.lamacguru.com
Yeah ... hope you didn't take our benchmarks too seriously :cool:)

Yes, your info is correct in our database. I've been working the East Coast for the last five years, probably why you haven't heard from us in recent years.
 




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