anyone have any experience with a Tokai LS98F and Edwards e-lp 92/98/130

[logen99999]

I recently had my les paul stolen. It was the only one i had so now i'm looking for an alternative. my budget is a 1000$ and from what i've been reading the edwards and tokai's are some of the best NEW MIJ les paul copies around.

i'm well aware that the 80s tokais were killer, but their prices are extremely high.

how do the NEW offerings from tokai and edwards in the 1000$ dollar range compare to each other? spec wise they're very similar.

here's a tokai on ebay i'm considering
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOKAI-LS98F...pt=Guitar&hash=item3f129354cf#ht_10092wt_1270

and here's an edwards

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP-Edwards...pt=Guitar&hash=item3f12797793#ht_11522wt_1270

 

[B Money]

I have an Edwards E-LP 85 (same thing as the 92). I think it's a great guitar and well worth the money. I know this argument is tired, but I compared it to a couple guitars from "the big G" and I prefered the Edwards. IMO, it was the better guitar in every regard, but hey there's no accounting for taste...

No experience with Tokai so I can't add anything there. All I can say is that I bought my Edwards sight unseen and took a leap of faith that it would be a good guitar, and I was not dissapointed.

If it matters to you, there is some speculation that Edwards guitars are mostly made in China, and only finish and final assembly is done at the ESP factory in Japan. Whatever, a good guitar is a good guitar.

 

[Tuberoast]

I have an 88 Greco 59/60 that I prefer over the LPs I've owned. I owned an Edwards and sold it during a dry financial spell, a very ice LP. I think mine was the E-98, it's been a few years.

 

[whitehall]

I have owned several Tokais and Edwards and my answer would be to not buy either of those from a Japan ebay seller. Here's why : Right now we are trading at 76 yen , which is the lowest it's been in awhile. There are plenty of people out there like me, who were buying those guitars for $650-750. shipped brand new from Ishibashi when we were trading at 130 yen a couple of years ago. Of those 2 I would take the Edwards but only because I like light LP's with big necks. What I would do in your case is get a Rinkya account and go buy a used Greco/OBG/Burny, etc. from Yahoo Japan. There are plenty of them out there.

 

[dave_mc]

If it matters to you, there is some speculation that Edwards guitars are mostly made in China, and only finish and final assembly is done at the ESP factory in Japan. Whatever, a good guitar is a good guitar.

i don't think it's speculation any more. some people at the tokai forum emailed esp and got an answer as such, and richtone (which was an edwards dealer here until recently) had info on its website to the same effect.

i'd need to try that tokai model next to the edwards (as i'm not sure if i've tried that exact one), but i suspect i'd go with teh tokai. granted part of that is because i'm a bit miffed that when i bought my edwards i thought it was completely mij

 

[logen99999]

i'm fully aware of edwards' MIJ vs MIC thing. the parts are made in china, and assembled and QCed in japan. having said that a good guitar is a good guitar to me.

 

[dave_mc]

same here

i just think i prefer the tokais (though as i said i can't remember if i've tried that one or not)

 

[cugel]

well the edwards has a long tenon which is nice. i own a very similar tokai to the one you linked. its a good guitar. i dont think you would be dissappointed

 

[Guitar Dave T]

Have done a lot of research on these recently. The 9x series Tokai and Edwards are predominantly Chinese made, and have the medium neck tenons you find in Memphis production Les Pauls and are polyurethane finished. If flamed, they have a flame veneer over a solid 3/4" maple cap.

That said, they're still good quality LP's.

The Edwards 120 and 130 series are considered much higher quality, with pure nitro finish, real Duncan pickups and long neck tenons. But you're getting into the $1,500 range now, with shipping.

 

[logen99999]

as i understand it, the 130s only have nitro finish, and better electronics and pickups. finish is subjective, and i dont mind poly. pickups are subjective too, i might like the stock ones. the 92s also have a long neck tenon.

i think i'm going to go with a e-lp 92. if i'm not nuts about the electronics/pups i can always swap them out. the most important part for me is build quality, which seems to be extremely high on these. i'm eyeing a 92 for 850$ right now, not a bad deal..

 

[cugel]

i didnt know those were coming from china now. mine says Japan but i bought it 9 years ago. i think the edwards will keep you happy.

 

[mikefair]

There are some Gibbys, a Japan Epi and a beeee-utiful Edwards on the forum right now in your price range.

 

[GtrDr]

I just bought a Edwards LP Custom replica & it plays wonderfully. It has Seymour Duncans & it cost about $1k. I have a 10yr old Love Rock that scary good. I paid $1,400.00 and it's every bit as nice as my R9's. The pickups have no ID on them but are incredible.

 

[kikujiro0208]

My Edwards 98...

My Tokai 100...

I got them when the JPY was low... fine axes... no remarks...

 

[Guitar Dave T]

as i understand it, the 130s only have nitro finish, and better electronics and pickups. finish is subjective, and i dont mind poly. pickups are subjective too, i might like the stock ones. the 92s also have a long neck tenon.

i think i'm going to go with a e-lp 92. if i'm not nuts about the electronics/pups i can always swap them out. the most important part for me is build quality, which seems to be extremely high on these. i'm eyeing a 92 for 850$ right now, not a bad deal..

I had a Chinese Burny LP that had a thick poly finish and medium neck tenon - a little longer than my Gibson SG 61R, but shorter than what's in the Edwards 120 and 130 series. The Burny was a damned good guitar that had some nice tones:

http://www.guitardavetaylor.com/DaveTaylorGainStageRedBlues.mp3

http://www.guitardavetaylor.com/BossaLeadLesPaul032006.mp3

http://www.guitardavetaylor.com/2slowBlues.mp3

 

[logen99999]

My Edwards 98...

My Tokai 100...

I got them when the JPY was low... fine axes... no remarks...

hows the build quality on both?

 

[dave_mc]

well the edwards has a long tenon which is nice. i own a very similar tokai to the one you linked. its a good guitar. i dont think you would be dissappointed

yeah that's true. i think the edwards has a longer tenon than the cheaper MIJ tokais. Also the cheaper MIJ tokais don't have one piece backs (the newer edwardses might not either, though mine does, as do plenty of other people's).

though tokai *might* be using better (african i think) mahogany than the edwardses (not sure what it is)

(a) Have done a lot of research on these recently. (b) The 9x series Tokai and Edwards are predominantly Chinese made, (c) and have the medium neck tenons you find in Memphis production Les Pauls and (d) are polyurethane finished. (e) If flamed, they have a flame veneer over a solid 3/4" maple cap.

(f) That said, they're still good quality LP's.

(g) The Edwards 120 and 130 series are considered much higher quality, with (h) pure nitro finish, (i) real Duncan pickups and (j) long neck tenons. (k) But you're getting into the $1,500 range now, with shipping.

(a) apparently not

(b) edwards are predominantly chinese-made, but as far as i'm aware tokais are 100% MIJ (well, the japanese-made tokais, anyway, of course)

(c) i was under the impression that the edwardses have long neck tenons, and the cheaper mij tokais have medium. the gibsons have short until you hit historics (i think).

(d) yep for (cheaper MIJ) tokai, yep for the edwards standard series, but the lacquer taste series (normally have "LT" at the end of the model designation, i think) has a nitro top coat over poly

(e) yep

(f) yep

(g) are they? there was a limited edition very expensive edwards there a year or two ago which was 100% mij, but i'm honestly not sure if teh ones you're talking about are any higher quality, or just have a higher spec (all nitro, better electronics and pickups, solid figured top).

(h) yeah i think so, but i'm not 100% sure

(i) all the edwardses (that i'm aware of) have real duncans (or EMGs). But the relics often have antiquities, which i guess are admittedly higher quality, but it's not like the other edwardses don't have "real" duncans. Plus some of the relics don't have antiquities (the jimmy page i think).

(j) as i said, i think all the edwardses have long neck tenons

(k) yep

This is all to the best of my knowledge/recollection. Don't take my word for it, though- check out the tokai registry and/or japanaxe forums to get the lowdown on them. They know an awful lot more than I do about them.

i didnt know those were coming from china now. mine says Japan but i bought it 9 years ago. i think the edwards will keep you happy.

the newer ones often say "made in japan" too, so in and of itself, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I think technically they are, as long as a certain percentage of the work is done in japan, but they're not "made in japan" in the way that we guitar fans would understand it (i.e. completely made there).

Funnily enough my edwards doesn't say "made in japan" for some reason. But i've seen older ones which did, and also newer, so I don't know what's going on there. Maybe they just forgot to put the sticker on it.

 

[Guitar Dave T]

(a) apparently not

(b) edwards are predominantly chinese-made, but as far as i'm aware tokais are 100% MIJ (well, the japanese-made tokais, anyway, of course)

Apparently not right back atcha. A band mate I work with has a Tokai LP that is sure as **** made in China or Korea. The lower end Tokais have been made in both countries since the mid 90's. It's a decent guitar, BTW, but has a poly finish and short neck tenon.

(c) i was under the impression that the edwardses have long neck tenons, and the cheaper mij tokais have medium. the gibsons have short until you hit historics (i think).

The Edwards 92 and 98 series guitars have what would be considered medium tenons in Gibson-speak, with lots of slop filled in with glue to make it easier, less labor intensive to allign the necks, but they still call them "long neck tenons"

(d) yep for (cheaper MIJ) tokai, yep for the edwards standard series, but the lacquer taste series (normally have "LT" at the end of the model designation, i think) has a nitro top coat over poly

(e) yep

(f) yep

(g) are they? there was a limited edition very expensive edwards there a year or two ago which was 100% mij, but i'm honestly not sure if teh ones you're talking about are any higher quality, or just have a higher spec (all nitro, better electronics and pickups, solid figured top).

(h) yeah i think so, but i'm not 100% sure

(i) all the edwardses (that i'm aware of) have real duncans (or EMGs). But the relics often have antiquities, which i guess are admittedly higher quality, but it's not like the other edwardses don't have "real" duncans. Plus some of the relics don't have antiquities (the jimmy page i think).

(j) as i said, i think all the edwardses have long neck tenons

(k) yep

This is all to the best of my knowledge/recollection. Don't take my word for it, though- check out the tokai registry and/or japanaxe forums to get the lowdown on them. They know an awful lot more than I do about them.



the newer ones often say "made in japan" too, so in and of itself, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I think technically they are, as long as a certain percentage of the work is done in japan, but they're not "made in japan" in the way that we guitar fans would understand it (i.e. completely made there).

Funnily enough my edwards doesn't say "made in japan" for some reason. But i've seen older ones which did, and also newer, so I don't know what's going on there. Maybe they just forgot to put the sticker on it.

And don't forget - a lot of the "MIJ" Tokais and Edwards have only a small part of the production process taking place in Japan, compared with China or Korea. Frankly, I don't believe it matters as much since the Koreans and Chinese have gotten a good handle on QC these past few years, and ultimately it's going to come down to quality and spec of materials and finish.

I had a Chinese Burny with a medium neck tenon (about the same length as what I had in a Nashville production Gibson) that played better and was a more flawless guitar than the Gibson. It's original pickups sucked, but I don't care for authentic Burstbuckers that much either.

 

[dave_mc]

i'm well aware the cheaper tokais aren't MIJ (they were korean-made, now are made in China)- they aren't the ones I'm talking about, as i made clear when I said "tokais are 100% MIJ (well, the japanese-made tokais, anyway, of course)".

As far as i'm aware, the Japanese-made Tokais are 100% MIJ. Which is what I said. Which isn't what you said. And which still isn't what you're saying.

When I say I'm comparing the low end MIJ Tokais to Edwards, I mean models like the LS85 and stuff like that. Which are MIJ. And which are (currently, anyway) a similar price to the edwards models.

That might be true about the tenons. I'm not exactly a gigantic gibson nut. But they're certainly longer (far as i'm aware) than the short tenons gibson uses on the cheaper gibsons. And I thought (could be wrong) they were longer than the ones used on the cheaper MIJ tokais.

 

[Hulakatt]

I've had my Edwards 98 for over 5 years now and still love it. I've owned a few Gibson's as well in that time but still have the Edwards.

Yes. they have a long neck tenon.

Yes. they use real SD pickups.

Yes. They are very well made.