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Anyone know CITES policy for overseas to USA guitar sales?

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
I purchased a guitar with a simple rosewood neck on Reverb from Sound Affects Premier in the United Kingdom. They had a offer option and accepted my offer and I purchased it with paypal.They had a shipping policy to USA, Japan, Australia, and Canada for $133. They contact me a tell me they cannot ship it due to CITES. I checked CITES which shows the policy has been changed in November and items like this can be shipped without documents. Sound Affects Premier is even selling hundreds of guitars with rosewood necks and even BRAZILIAN rosewood necks with USA shipping. I called Reverb and Nathan kindly determined that this company has sold many recent guitars to the states with rosewood necks. They have another guitar of the same specs but different color still for sale to anyone including USA. They had the guitar listed at $2500 and I offered $1900 which they accepted and now using a bogus reason to not sell. Anyone with info on CITES issues with guitars from the UK would be appreciated. I contacted dozens of UK vendors on Reverb with rosewood necks and they all indicate CITES no longer an issue. Thanks
 

Highnumbers

Member
Messages
702
Move on, if they're not playing ball. You have plenty of evidence at your disposal that CITES is no longer an issue for any guitar (except for Brazilian), and if the retailer isn't cool with that evidence then they don't really want your money.

Can you order the same guitar from another retailer?
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
They are difficult to source otherwise it would not be an issue especially for the offered price. I just needed some confirmation that what they are telling me is bull about CITES. I do feel that Reverb needs to step up to the plate and have them remove the dozens of listings for rosewood necks for USA ship. If they cannot ship this guitar to me how can they ship all these other guitars to USA and what about abuse of subsequent buyers if this is true. Reverb once was very blunt with me that if I wanted to remain on Reverb I needed to allow a return on an item that was as described because my store policy (did not know at the time) showed I allowed returns for any reason. This seller should be dealt the same medicine namely ship the guitar or get off Reverb or delist every other rosewood with presumed CITES issues. Thanks
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
My sense is that Reverb will allow this because this company is raking in huge sums of money for Reverb and me not so much. We will see tomorrow how Reverb handles it and if thy succumb to the mighty dollar and not what is fair and just.
 

Jayyj

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,286
Sound Effects is a very reputable UK dealer - I'm sure something's getting lost in the picture here. Reverb will get to the bottom of it.
 

Blix

Norwegian
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,228
As long is not braz there is no CITES regulations putting a stop to a sale now, but it's new, the previous CITES arrangement was lifted as of November 26th, they might not be updated on the new rules?
 

gsh1968

Member
Messages
77
As long is not braz there is no CITES regulations putting a stop to a sale now, but it's new, the previous CITES arrangement was lifted as of November 26th, they might not be updated on the new rules?
While the exemption for musical instruments came into force on 26th November it is still up to each country/ territory to implement the change. Unfortunately even though they had 3 months to debate/decide/ratify the changes, the EU has still not ratified the changes into law. This means that the customs agencies in every EU country still require import/export perrmits for any rosewood coming into or going out of the EU.
I spoke to the UK agency in charge of protected species today (APHA) and was told that they still had no official word when the law would be changed. All they could say was they hoped it was going to be the start of December.
When the ban came into force in 2017 the EU did not have import procedures in place until 3 months after the law changed, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
 

Blix

Norwegian
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,228
While the exemption for musical instruments came into force on 26th November it is still up to each country/ territory to implement the change. Unfortunately even though they had 3 months to debate/decide/ratify the changes, the EU has still not ratified the changes into law. This means that the customs agencies in every EU country still require import/export perrmits for any rosewood coming into or going out of the EU.
I spoke to the UK agency in charge of protected species today (APHA) and was told that they still had no official word when the law would be changed. All they could say was they hoped it was going to be the start of December.
When the ban came into force in 2017 the EU did not have import procedures in place until 3 months after the law changed, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Yeah that makes sense indeed.
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
Nothing lost in translation.....they have claimed a bogus reason not to honor purchase price which was paid. They have recent history per reverb of selling rosewood neck guitar to the states and continue to list for sale to states. This is not reputable and will wait on Reverb to delist all their hundreds other rosewood neck guitars to the states. Otherwise reverb will also be implicated.
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
The bottom line is Sound Effects is and has sold rosewood neck guitars to USA in recent days = not reputable response to agreed on and paid price through reverb. If they had a history of no rosewood neck guitar sales to states it would back up their claim. It actually does not.
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
It also seems clear to most that CITES is no longer an issue and thus a bogus issue if raised.
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
Crickets from Reverb.........My recommendation is to steer clear of Audio Affects Premier in UK and on Reverb. They lied to me and Reverb to save a couple dollars and Reverb also has done and will do nothing most likely because they are making thousands on these sales. It comes down to the almighty dollar. Heretofore, I used to believe that Reverb had some integrity. Not after this debacle.
 

RayRay

Member
Messages
2,506
Yeah I have a guitar that I’ve paid for with a dealer in the UK and they’re waiting for the green light to ship it, whatever that means.

And it’s one I don’t want sitting in customs for ages :)
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
Yeah I have a guitar that I’ve paid for with a dealer in the UK and they’re waiting for the green light to ship it, whatever that means.

And it’s one I don’t want sitting in customs for ages :)
If I can ask how long have you waited and who is the dealer? Thanks
 

gsh1968

Member
Messages
77
I spoke to APHA again today and was told that the new rules will come into effect in the EU December 14th.
They advised waiting to ship rosewod products until next working day (14th is a Saturday) to be safe.
 

robocomp

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
I was finally able to get reverb to contact Sound Affects and then Tim did the right thing and resold me the guitar at the price initially quoted. I paid for it and it is scheduled to ship on the 14th of December. The proof will be in the pudding when it ships with tracking on the 14th. The drama could have been averted initially by Sound Affects had they not cancelled and refunded with no recourse. Cudos to reverb for informing Sound Affects that they need to follow the rules and sell at the price they offered to me. If all of this was a misunderstanding then I will receive the guitar as promised and Sound Affects will be exonerated. I do thank Tim for being a stand up guy and working all of this out!
 
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