Anyone mix G12-65s with Classic Lead 80s?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by SkipTracer, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. SkipTracer

    SkipTracer Member

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    The cab in question is my Marshall 1960B. It's got the original quad of G12-65s and it sounds really good.

    However, I'd like more speaker options for recording. Plus, the the 65 watters are not efficient enough to keep up with the silver alnicos in my AC30. I usually don't bring the 4x12 to gigs anymore, but when I do, I can hardly hear it. (In fact, this is one of the reasons I don't really use it anymore.)

    Has anyone tried Classic Leads and the 65s in an x-pattern? They seem like a good choice in theory (crisp highs, fat bottom vs. the middy 65s), but you never know...

    Thanks!
     
  2. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    Are saying you are running the 4 X 12" simultaneously with the Silver AlNiCos, with just the AC30?
     
  3. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    G12H-30s and 65's. Love the combo. Havent tried them with CL80's though. Bob
     
  4. SkipTracer

    SkipTracer Member

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    Yep, both the 4x12 and the silver alnicos are driven by the AC30.

    I thought about the G12H30, too, but I'd rather not cut the power handling of the cab in half. With the Vox, this obviously doesn't matter, but when used with a cranked 100 watter, it could be problem.
     
  5. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    I wouldnt worry about the G12H-30. Its conservatively rated for sure. Ive beaten the crap out of them in 30 watt combo's and have yet had one blow. Right now Ive got a G12H-30 and G12-65 in my 2x12 and run it thru my 60 watt Supersonic head full bore. Bob
     
  6. GrecoVee

    GrecoVee Member

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    I have a late`60's Traynor 4x12 cab that I bought real cheap with trashed speakers in it and loaded it with two Rola-Cel. G12-80 (1777 cones, 15 ohm) and two Rola-Cel. G12-65 (444 cones, 15 ohm) in an "X" pattern. The only reason I loaded it like this is because I didn't have four speakers that matched. This cab had two input jacks so I wired it in stereo at 8 OHM a side. I use it with a small rack system and a stereo power amp or with my Roland JC120H stereo amp head. I doen't sound bad, but I've been through the ringer as far as "mixing" Celestion speakers in 4x12 cabs. I've tried many combinations and come to the conclution that it's not for me! I think a 4x12 sound best with four of the same wattage speakers.
     
  7. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    The first thing I would do is to measure the ohms of the 4 X 12" cabinet and make sure that all the speakers are connected, working properly. I would then make sure about having the right ohm match ups to both sets of speakers. I doesn't seem to me that there should be that much of a difference in loudness between the two sets of speakers. If there was, I doubt that swapping in a pair of G12-80 would make enough of a change.
     
  8. SkipTracer

    SkipTracer Member

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    Good points, thank you!

    But the speakers are all fine, and the wiring is correct as well.
    The cab is 16 ohms (4 16 ohm speakers wired for series/parallel), the silver alnicos are 8 ohms each wired in series for 16 ohms total. So two parallel 16 ohm loads (=8 ohm in total) are hooked up to the 8 ohm tap of the output transformer. Perfect match, unless I'm missing something.

    The reason why the cab is not as loud as the Vox must be the speakers. G12-65s have a sensitivity rating of 97db iirc. The alnicos are around 100db. That, combined with the beaminess of the closed back 4x12 vs. the open back combo could very well cause the volume difference I'm getting.

    I'm not sure whether the CL80s will help, but they are more efficient than the 65s.

    Still, I'm wondering how the two would sound together.

    Thanks for the comments, guys. Please keep'em coming!
     
  9. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    One of the reasons the G12H-30 seems to fit so well with the G12-65's despite the fact the G12H's are 100 db is the mix. The G12-65s fill in the midde seamlessly that the G12H-30's lack. Not sure how the CL80 would mix with it. Its beenj a while since Ive owned any. Bob
     
  10. thegame

    thegame Member

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    I tried it and hated it. The feel of the CL80s is rather laid back but the 65s are upfront & in your face, due to the mids I guess.

    Though the speakers have some similarities, it felt like they were fighting each other, so I went with all 65s.
     
  11. Maruuk

    Maruuk Member

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    Slightly OT, but is the CL80 just the newer version of the 70/80?
     
  12. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    No. The 70/80 was adapted from the CL80 as stated on the Celestion site. A more affordable alternative perhaps... Bob
     
  13. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    3dB isn't much of a difference. Maybe you could put something if front of the VOX speakers???
     
  14. GrecoVee

    GrecoVee Member

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    The CL80 is a newer verison of the original Rola-Celestion G12-80.
     
  15. blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    I tried a CL80 with a Weber 1265 in my 212 and I didn't really like the combo. The CL80 dominated the mix and I felt I lost too much highs and presence.

    Scumback speakers might have a version of the G12H30 with a little more power handling, if they do that is what I would mix with your G12-65's....
     
  16. SkipTracer

    SkipTracer Member

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    I thought adding 3db meant doubling the perceived volume, no?

    Interesting.

    Btw, are you guys talking about the 70th anniversary or the heritage version of the G12H30? Or the originals?

    I don't think Southbay Ampworks will ship to Europe. Unfortunately.
     
  17. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    Doubling the preceived volume requires 9dB.
     
  18. blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    3dB's is a noticable volume change, 10dB is doubling in volume and 10 times in sound pressure level.

    I was referring to the 70th anniversary G12H30's. I put Heritage G12H30's if I mean those versions and just G12H30's for the 70th anniversaries. Sure does get confusing...
     
  19. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    I was refering to the G12H-30 Anniversary model. A beautiful blend occurs with the G12-65.
    A 3db difference is the minumum (for most people) volume change that is percieved. Doubling the percieved volume is from 6-10 db. Since its percieved its somewhat subjective and notset in stone so to speak. The same goes with the minumun noticable volume change. Bob
     
  20. jamison162

    jamison162 Supporting Member

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    I have the same issue, it's why I tried the G12-65's in the first place (higher powered greenbacks, and it's gets me close enough). If I could run a G12H30 in there and be fine with a 30 watt speaker, why I'de rather have the 2 x 25 watt Greenbacks. But the Scumback H75-HP is a good or even better alternative. I still liked the M75's better though and may just keep with all G12-65's.

    I've got a StoneAge 2x12C coming also....:banana

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