Anyone NOT doing FRFR?

Anthony Gring

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,260
I only play at church these days so Kemper goes direct to FOH and we use IEM's.
I have dialed in my tones at home w/ headphones or my IEM's.
I heard it a couple weeks ago for first time in the sanctuary as I loaned it to another guy who's amp quit.
It sounded great.
I do have a SD170 that I use with the Kemper and a 1 X 12 cab.
It's only occasionally but it also sounds great. And, the SD170 has more than enough volume. It can get stupid loud.
If I had a small gig where I could have an amp on stage ( church is silent stage ) I'd likely use the SD with Kemper and cab.
 

batsbrew

Member
Messages
6,344
Running my stry iridium into the fx return of my mesa boogie mark 2b , into a closed back avatar cab with a celestion heritage g12h-55...

I also have 2 other 1x12 cabs with a celestion g12c-30 and a carvin British high powered 12"....
This works great for recording loud, I split 1 side of the ir with a NULL cab and that goes to the boogie, and my favorite mono ir on the other side, so I can direct record and mic a live cab at same time.
 

DownByLaw

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,278
I use a Fryette power station into a 2x12 greenback loaded cab with my stomp. Much more amp like imo vs. monitors and the power station has
a dandy loop that I can use to save on blocks.

Patrick
 

John Mark Painter

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
13,986
I have another thread in this but I just picked up a Mosvalve stereo amp.
Sounds great with my cabs, but still needs volume to “rock”
 

PBGas

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,503
I’m running the Line6 Powercab 212+ and it is utterly fabulous. I get the push and bottom and as well as everything in between via stereo. This is the first unit that I have had no complaints about how my Helix or Axe III runs through it and how it sounds. It just plain and simple great sounding!
 

ejeffreyhorn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
406
I've been using a Space Station for years two ways- as a stand alone FRFR for lower volume situations (It can't keep up with a very loud drummer), and as a hybrid wet/dry rig with my DT 25/50. I set up presets with a straight amp model into the DT, and send the effects with a cab model to the Space Station. It's amazing sounding- you hear the stereo effects all over the room but still have AITR from the DT.

I have plans to do the same using the SpaceStation and my PS170/1x12 cab. I think that the combo will be great for summer outdoor gigs where you need a little more volume. The full signal output on the SS (subwoofer out) is also handy for running a direct signal to the board.

RE: the SpaceStation and keeping up with a loud drummer. The SS will hold its own in most situations. I've measured it with an SPL meter at 108dbs. That's enough for most bar and small hall gigs.

While it is billed as a stereo solution, I think the magic of the SS is having a 11x11x18 amp that sounds bigger and less directional than most FRFR and cab solutions. You can technically be at a lower volume decibels-wise but be better heard around the room. And without the frequency problems of being on axis vs off axis.
 

Gtrman100

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,113
I have plans to do the same using the SpaceStation and my PS170/1x12 cab. I think that the combo will be great for summer outdoor gigs where you need a little more volume. The full signal output on the SS (subwoofer out) is also handy for running a direct signal to the board.

RE: the SpaceStation and keeping up with a loud drummer. The SS will hold its own in most situations. I've measured it with an SPL meter at 108dbs. That's enough for most bar and small hall gigs.

While it is billed as a stereo solution, I think the magic of the SS is having a 11x11x18 amp that sounds bigger and less directional than most FRFR and cab solutions. You can technically be at a lower volume decibels-wise but be better heard around the room. And without the frequency problems of being on axis vs off axis.
Everything you mentioned is really true, but in my last band we had a REALLY loud drummer, lol! Especially in a smaller room the Space Station really works great.
 

Tonekat

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
8,895
I enjoy running my AxeFX II XL+ through a Crown D150A and two Marshall 4 x 12's. Or 2 x 12's, or 1 x 12's.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
26,011
Running my stry iridium into the fx return of my mesa boogie mark 2b , into a closed back avatar cab with a celestion heritage g12h-55...

I also have 2 other 1x12 cabs with a celestion g12c-30 and a carvin British high powered 12"....
This works great for recording loud, I split 1 side of the ir with a NULL cab and that goes to the boogie, and my favorite mono ir on the other side, so I can direct record and mic a live cab at same time.

Where did you get the null cab IR to use? Do you put it on output two of each of your IR settings using the software?
I just picked up and amp for backline testing that also has an FX loop and I want to try Iridium to the board AND Iridium (null cab) into FX return of amp as backline.
I've changed my board up again and now I'm back to having everything (including delay) in front of the Iridium... damn the headphone out on this thing is great!
 

maxnew40

Member
Messages
1,009
If I only used on or two tones for a gig a regular speaker cab might be a good option. However I need to cover a wide range of tones and running a fender amp into a celestion greenback isn't what I want when I want the classic fender amp tone and neither is running a vox amp into that same speaker. For some of the classic amps the speaker is just as much a part of classic tone as the amp is.
 

Vanilla Latte

Member
Messages
836
My Headrush FRFR 108 is just too convenient to give up, and it's more accurate than going into the return of my amp. Love putting it right in front of my board and pointing it up at me. My bandmates appreciate the fact that my stage volume stays low. It's super light and easy to transport....and takes up literally no room in the car.

I just don't see the advantage of using an amp instead (other than my amp gives me a more musical feedback).
 
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ToneGrail

Member
Messages
1,832
I'm use a PowerStage and a 1x12 cab for most gigs. I use the full amp models with the power amps. Works great and the character of the modeled power amps come through. I think the trick is to use a neutral power amp and you should be OK.

I do the same. However I also take an additional speaker-emulated output from my preamp and feed it to the FOH. My cab functions strictly as my guitar stage monitor as I have it angled back facing me. This setup greatly reduces bleed and I don't need to use IEMs. Since my amp is basically pointing at my face 3 feet away, I don't need to turn it up very loud. If the other guys need to hear guitar they just ask for it in their wedges.
 

batsbrew

Member
Messages
6,344
Where did you get the null cab IR to use? Do you put it on output two of each of your IR settings using the software?
I just picked up and amp for backline testing that also has an FX loop and I want to try Iridium to the board AND Iridium (null cab) into FX return of amp as backline.
I've changed my board up again and now I'm back to having everything (including delay) in front of the Iridium... damn the headphone out on this thing is great!
if you are using the Iridium,
it is on their support page, along with a stereo null, mono null, and all their IR's that come with the unit.

i load one mono IR of my liking on the left side...
and the null on the right.

the sends are pretty straight forward.


the null output level is MUCH louder than the regular IR,
so i turn the volume down in the IR manager to match the output of the IR cab (4x12, 2x12, etc)

this works perfectly.
and i can record both at once,
plus, with my palmer PDI-09, i can elect to use that instead of a mic on the cab, and then i've got two pristine captures.
 

fr8_trane

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,278
I've tried it several times including a CLR and always go back to a power amp and real cab. It just sounds and feels better to me and IMO its not close. FRFR loses too much in the translation AND I had to jump through hoops with EQ and Cab IR's and mics to tame the excess treble that comes with FRFR.

My current rig is an HX stomp into a Duncan powerstage 170 into an Avatar 1x12 with a celestion creamback. It sounds great with every amp sim I use. The lone exception might be modern metal amps because an open 1x12 just cant chug like a closed 4x12. But i dont Djent anyway so...
 
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Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
26,011
Perfect, thanks! After hearing some of Jonathan Cordy's examples of the Iridium into FX loop of amp I pretty excited to get the new amp in and test this out. Good be a killer combination (Iridium with cab IR to FOH, Iridium null cab to FX return of amp as backline).

if you are using the Iridium,
it is on their support page, along with a stereo null, mono null, and all their IR's that come with the unit.

i load one mono IR of my liking on the left side...
and the null on the right.

the sends are pretty straight forward.


the null output level is MUCH louder than the regular IR,
so i turn the volume down in the IR manager to match the output of the IR cab (4x12, 2x12, etc)

this works perfectly.
and i can record both at once,
plus, with my palmer PDI-09, i can elect to use that instead of a mic on the cab, and then i've got two pristine captures.
 

Hejlstorm

Member
Messages
68
Line 6 has an FRFR that models speakers such as vintage 30 greenbacks etc. seems like it would make more sense if it modeled what type of PA cabinet the house system is using JBL, Electro Voice, QSC etc... that way you would get a better idea of what your guitar sounds like coming out of the mains when you are on stage.
 

JSP552003

Member
Messages
28
I currently use both for different projects (both hard rock/metal). For me, it depends on the band. I’ve found if one guitarist is using a traditional cab setup, then FRFR won’t cut through as well.

In my original band, the other guitarist and I both use FRFR with our Helix LTs and it works great.
Guitar -> Helix LT -> Headrush FRFR112

In my cover band, the other guitarist and I both use traditional cabs. He uses a pod hd500x and I use my Helix LT.
Guitar -> Helix LT -> EHX 44 magnum -> Carvin vertical 2x12 cab

Both sound great and I like having the option of using both.
 

asintoras

Member
Messages
2,294
My experience is a bit different from most as I am currently using analog amp-sims in front of my amp, to emulate Marshall Plexi and clean Blackface tones (I posted about this on "Classic Marshall tones - non traditional way" in this forum), but I also use an extra line-out feed with an impulse response into the mixer, in addition to the traditionally mic'ed cab.

In my experience, the difference in tubes for a power amp make little difference. The most dramatic difference will be provided by the preamp and speaker cab IR.

In regards to FFRR, my experience is that it will only perform well if the powered speaker is a very good and neutral one, as most of the cheaper units are designed for DJ's and produce much more bass than what guitars need. I tried Alto's before, as well as a DB Technology (sister company to RCF) and was not satisfied, until I bought some FBT powered speakers, which sounded great right out of the box. However, I still prefer my combined approach of using my tube amp with some analog amp sims in front, and feed another signal in parallel with an impulse response cab (4x12) to the mixer.
 

TNJ

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,910
I'm another FX8 convert into regular tube amp. I've played it into my Mesa Lone Star Special, my Holland Lobo 20, and my '70 Fender BandMaster 1210 cab rig.
Sounds glorious, including OD and Wah (using Fractal expression pedal). I've owned the FX8 for a couple of years, but didn't have the patience to dive into the 100 page manual until all the time off I've had recently.
Thanks to AD of TGP for help in realizing the power in this beast!

Sj
 

drew365

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,248
I bought a Stomp as a backup to my Helix floor. I then decided to create a very compact rig and put the Stomp on a pedal board with a PS170 and run that into an oversize 1x12 cab with a Celestion Creamback. That is now my main band rig and my Helix floor / PC+ sits home. I gave up the DXR12 a couple of years ago.
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