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Anyone up for Hemp... Speakers that is?

Valves-R-Us

Member
Messages
691
So I'm chasing a 10" speaker that may roll-off upper mids and provide less 'honk' than the Emi Copperhead I have. Thought the hemp flavors looked interesting and may tame my middy, single tone-knob tweedy?

That's where it gets interesting. I've read various posts about Tone Tubby's, the Lil' Buddy, and of course the C-Rex. Add in the mysterious Weber hemp flavors and you've rounded up the crew. Finding differences between the 10" Buddy and the Rex is not to be found. Why even make the 10" Rex after the Buddy was released? Who knows? I hope to find the least efficient (low dB) of the lot out there.

Okay, so hemp is smooth and mellow...

"We like to use hemp cones because it allows us to get another unique tonality," says Anthony Lucas of Eminence. "Hemp is stiffer than other pulp formulations. It has a slower breakup characteristic and sounds very warm and smooth with mellow highs."

Wait, they're mid-humped?...

"They have interesting mid-range qualities," Tone Tubby says. "Most speakers are either very cutting or are lacking in mids. The hemp cones are humped in the mids, but it's a very warm delivery".

The Weber 10A125A-H (hemp) is claimed to be 93-95dB (not exactly documented). That sounds like what I'm looking for. They say...

"For late 50’s and early 60’s amps (Bassman, Concert, etc.) using AlNiCo 10’s, and a good replacement for Chicago Jensen P10Q in all Fender applications where a warm top end is desired".

Great, truly definitive descriptions of the products. So much detail its hard to absorb.

So which is it? Mid-humped or smoothed? If I want to reduce upper mids, retain bass without flub, and have a warm tone without the P10R sparkle (5K bump). Are hemp cones even in there?
 

fingertip

Squier to the Grand Funk
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
841
If you say the word 'awe' it describes what I hear in the voice of the 12" CRex I pulled out of my PRRI '65. I've boxed it and need to get it up for sale.
 

79Stone1

Member
Messages
316
All my experience has been with a 12" C-Rex. In a Deluxe-ish circuit the speaker was always tight and snappy. If anything I'd say it has a mid hump but I find it to be balanced overall and very usable. It's got kind of a stiff, plucky quality that seems well suited to country and such.
 

79Stone1

Member
Messages
316
If you say the word 'awe' it describes what I hear in the voice of the 12" CRex I pulled out of my PRRI '65. I've boxed it and need to get it up for sale.
To me that describes the tone of the Princeton cabinet in general ;)
What's going in its place?
 

fingertip

Squier to the Grand Funk
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
841
Made a baffle and put in Jensen 10Pr. The bass flubs if you let it but it sound more Fendery.
 

fingertip

Squier to the Grand Funk
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
841
All my experience has been with a 12" C-Rex. In a Deluxe-ish circuit the speaker was always tight and snappy. If anything I'd say it has a mid hump but I find it to be balanced overall and very usable. It's got kind of a stiff, plucky quality that seems well suited to country and such.
I really agree. I think it would pair well with a Tele.
 

Johnny Cache

Member
Messages
387
So I'm chasing a 10" speaker that may roll-off upper mids and provide less 'honk' than the Emi Copperhead I have. Thought the hemp flavors looked interesting and may tame my middy, single tone-knob tweedy?

That's where it gets interesting. I've read various posts about Tone Tubby's, the Lil' Buddy, and of course the C-Rex. Add in the mysterious Weber hemp flavors and you've rounded up the crew. Finding differences between the 10" Buddy and the Rex is not to be found. Why even make the 10" Rex after the Buddy was released? Who knows? I hope to find the least efficient (low dB) of the lot out there.

Okay, so hemp is smooth and mellow...

"We like to use hemp cones because it allows us to get another unique tonality," says Anthony Lucas of Eminence. "Hemp is stiffer than other pulp formulations. It has a slower breakup characteristic and sounds very warm and smooth with mellow highs."

Wait, they're mid-humped?...

"They have interesting mid-range qualities," Tone Tubby says. "Most speakers are either very cutting or are lacking in mids. The hemp cones are humped in the mids, but it's a very warm delivery".

The Weber 10A125A-H (hemp) is claimed to be 93-95dB (not exactly documented). That sounds like what I'm looking for. They say...

"For late 50’s and early 60’s amps (Bassman, Concert, etc.) using AlNiCo 10’s, and a good replacement for Chicago Jensen P10Q in all Fender applications where a warm top end is desired".

Great, truly definitive descriptions of the products. So much detail its hard to absorb.

So which is it? Mid-humped or smoothed? If I want to reduce upper mids, retain bass without flub, and have a warm tone without the P10R sparkle (5K bump). Are hemp cones even in there?
From my limited experience with hemp speakers, I found the Lil' Buddy worked good in my '83 Super Champ, it kind of helped with the brightness a little, and sounds good. I also tried a Copperhead, and didn't notice much difference, swapping the two speakers between my '81 Princeton Reverb and the Super Champ. So I kept the Buddy in the Super Champ. The only other issue I find is the Super Champ is a bit more boxy sounding, due to it's size no matter which speaker I used. Still both are better sounding than the original Fender Special Design.
 

Valves-R-Us

Member
Messages
691
Interesting hearing 'very little change' or 'mid-humped'. I suspected not a massive change comparing Lil' Buddy and Copperhead Freq/SPL plots. They look nearly identical but the Buddy drops off more around 2-3K. What's remarkable with the graphs, is the Jenson C10R is showing the most mid-scoop with a significant dip around 400K, then it follows the normal Jensen curve followed by a peak at 5K. Other 'American' voiced drivers look nearly the same following the same curve. The noticeable difference happens around 5K that may be the Fender sparkle or shimmer? Some have it peak, others roll it off.

I was curious about below video as it seems to be better produced than others? "12 speakers tested in a 67 Princeton". The setup and testing seems good. The results are interesting basically revealing the differences are hardly noticeable. The Oxford being the exception. The video makes for low expectations that speakers can differ greatly.

I'm thinking I'll get the most benefit going with a low-efficiency driver rather than much of a tone change from the speaker swap. Strange but 93-95dB speakers are the hard ones to find.

 
Messages
6,921
Never assume that hemp would solve your tonal issues in a magic stroke. There are quite full-sounding 10" drivers and speakers can be fitted with various dustcaps to tweak the sound in various ways. If everything fails: ask a builder for a bespoke, one-off design. Usually they're ever too happy to be of service.
 
Messages
150
My unscientific two cents worth:
I put 2 Lil Buddy’s and 2 Eminence 1028 alnicos in a SF Super Reverb. Sounds really nice with a balance between the very defined 1028s and the smoother Buddy’s. My goal was to tame the highs, even with the bright switch off.
I put a CRex in a SF PR while I got the original speaker re coned (bass was always flubby.) The Rex sounded so good I didn’t want to put the original back. Nice jazzy (bass) tone.
There are special limited release type PRs with 12” (?) Rex speakers that sound great if you can find one.
IMHO, hemp speakers are useful if you don’t want the intense (“ice picky”) highs. They change the tone of your amp, but if you don’t revere “stock” they may work for you. Hope that helps.
 

FuzzyAce

Member
Messages
2,122
My favorite speaker currently -- 10" CRex. It's a different animal compared to its 12" brother. Great balance overall, just enough warmth in the low mids yet still snappy in the highs without being harsh. Smooth, but not flat and dull like the 12" version can be. The 8" eminence hemp is also killer.
 

Kabukiman

Member
Messages
360
Hemp is just a material, it still depends on how it is used. I have a pair of hemp cone 12"s that are the brightest speakers I have ever owned.

If you want 10s with a top end roll-off, have a look at the Jensen Falcons
 

Valves-R-Us

Member
Messages
691
Never assume that hemp would solve your tonal issues in a magic stroke.
Pretty sure that's the best tip or speaker recommendation any of us should make. And as Farmers Insurance says, he 'knows a thing or two'.

I think we all want the same solution. Read up on marketing non-sense and scan forums to land the right replacement driver - the first time. Nobody wants to mess with ordering five speakers finding the keeper. I've learned you can only get a better idea from reading or watching demo videos with a 'critical ear'. YouTube compresses the hooey out of the audio tracks where the actual sounds may be quite different? Reviewers are likely to rave about what they recently purchased. We all do that with the new-toy excitement.

In this case I thought I'd explore hemp as a candidate to quell the upper-mids my Copperhead likes to blare and honk. Not seeing the answer as most owners have scooped amps. I'm looking at the Celestion Greenback G-10. Crazy talk, but an interesting speaker.
 

Daytona57

Member
Messages
2,884
The attached link, has a post from Stewart Ward, of his thoughts, on the Cannabis Rex:

 

Valves-R-Us

Member
Messages
691
...Stewart Ward, of his thoughts, on the Cannabis Rex:
That was very interesting input from Stewart. The tdpri review included other points I've never spotted.

I'm getting a 94dB WGS Vet-10 from the Brown Truck this week to test the lower efficiency. This test should determine where the amp wants to run comparing to the 99dB Copperhead. Hemp is still my friend.

Two excerpts from that thread -

Stewart Ward - "This just goes to underline how important the speaker and output transformer design is in the outcome of the sound your hear. Contrary to popular beliefs, it's NOT just about valves/tubes!! That 'Fender' amp tonality is mainly due to the output transformer designs"...

Another poster - "I think this description is a little over the top, but it's accurate. This is not a speaker for Jensen lovers. The distortion tone is more "bwoooo" than "bweeee", if that makes sense? I think it sounds great with humbuckers".

* Well that cleared it up.
 

FuzzyAce

Member
Messages
2,122
Pretty sure that's the best tip or speaker recommendation any of us should make. And as Farmers Insurance says, he 'knows a thing or two'.

I think we all want the same solution. Read up on marketing non-sense and scan forums to land the right replacement driver - the first time. Nobody wants to mess with ordering five speakers finding the keeper. I've learned you can only get a better idea from reading or watching demo videos with a 'critical ear'. YouTube compresses the hooey out of the audio tracks where the actual sounds may be quite different? Reviewers are likely to rave about what they recently purchased. We all do that with the new-toy excitement.

In this case I thought I'd explore hemp as a candidate to quell the upper-mids my Copperhead likes to blare and honk. Not seeing the answer as most owners have scooped amps. I'm looking at the Celestion Greenback G-10. Crazy talk, but an interesting speaker.
The G10 is a nice speaker too, I also use one. Unfortunately with speakers, we can all tell you what sounds great to us but until tried with your guitars and amps it's impossible to know. Pickups are the same way. It's a gamble, but you try to be as informed as possible before the purchase.
 

Valves-R-Us

Member
Messages
691
... you try to be as informed as possible before the purchase.
Right, and hopefully eliminate units identified as weak, honky, flubby, etc. But even those claims are subjective to what they were installed in. An open-back 1X combo may be reported as 'thin' where the same model in a closed-back quad is 'boomy'. You look for repeating comments like 'flubby low end' over and over. That's helpful.

Somewhat more misleading are the mix and match owners that post various models blended in their cabs. That can be a mess mixing different efficiency drivers. Where the louder speaker(s) dominate the others or even create weird standing waves cancelling others out? Might work fantastic in a sealed box but sound horrid in a open-back Super Something?

I read a post where an owner installed a quad of Celestion 10 Golds only to be disappointed that they didn't sound like the reviews he read. That seems like a bit of a tale? Should I have installed those (appropriately named) Golds, they would be left in forever and a line item in my will!
 
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Hugh Manitee

Member
Messages
979
...
So which is it? Mid-humped or smoothed? If I want to reduce upper mids, retain bass without flub, and have a warm tone without the P10R sparkle (5K bump). Are hemp cones even in there?
I would say both; the two are not the same thing, and hemp cone speakers often may both accentuate mids, while attenuating highs slightly.

Let us know how you like those Celestion G10 Alnico Golds!
 




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