Anyone use a 2x12 cab with a 1x12 combo?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by jhall85, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    Hi, all. I've got a Sommatone Overdrive 35 that is one of my all time favorite amps, but even at practice I've always needed more than one speaker for my liking. In using a 2x12 ext cab I've run into a few issues. Not problems exactly, it always sounds good and I'm generally the only one who notices.

    First of all, it's harder to play speaker swap since the 1x12 combo can have an 8 or a 16ohm speaker in it, requiring either 2 8ohm or 2 16ohm speakers in the cab. (Its an avatar traditional open back 2x12 btw.) Then there's the issue of matching up speaker sensitivities.

    Has anyone run into issues with this situation? Or maybe some people might thing it looks strange to have a 1x12 combo on top of a 2x12 cab?

    Right now I've got an 8 ohm celestion alnico cream in the OD35 (holy moly it sounds good!) and in the cab I've got a g12m-65 creamback and a scumback m75 in 16 ohm. This set up mostly sounds really good but the cream is definitely dominant and the bottom end altogether is pretty warm and round. My theory is that since the alnico cream is 100db, the 98db creamback and 97db scumback together would make the ext cab around 100 or 101db. Is this correct? They certainly add something but the creamback definitely still seems dominant. Could be that it's closer to my ears as well.

    Although I'm fairly happy with it, I'm trying to add a little definition to the low end without giving up the glorious upper mids and sparkly treble that I'm currently getting.

    I recently found an old celestion t1281 which (if i'm not mistaken) is a 16 ohm g12h30 55hz from the early 70's. I was thinking about closing up the openback cab, since I will still have the openback combo on top, and putting the t1281 in place of the scumback. I've always heard g12h30's sound good with an alnico like a gold or blue but I'm not sure about the 55hz cone. Also, it will be in the 2x12 with the creamback, with the alnico cream sitting on top in the combo. (just clarifying)

    I guess it would help to mention that I play mostly moderate to high gain rock although I often play cleaner stuff in the vein of The Gun Club (sort of bluesy, country post punk) to more broken up garage rock (like reigning sound or Thee Oh Sees) and punk stuff (like stiff little fingers and radio birdman), all the way to higher gain stoner metal stuff like electric wizard or sleep.

    So my thinking is that the openback 1x12 combo will give me what I want out of an open back, and the closed back 2x12 will give me the focused chunk I want out of a closed back. I'm curious if I'll get the good mojo everyone talks about with a g12h30 and an alnico even if they are in different cabs. All sorts of variables, like closed/open, the 55hz cone and the creamback thrown in the mix. I guess I'll just have to see after I get the conversion board to close up the cab. I've also got two early 70's altec lansing 417's in 8 ohm I may throw in the mix at some point. Ideally I'd like the 2x12 to also be usable with my ceriatone yeti 50w since its currently going through a marshall 1960tv 4x12 with reissue greenbacks.

    Sorry for writing a boring novel on here, but any input, similar experiences, speculations or comments are welcome and appreciated. Thanks for reading!
     
  2. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    Impedance matching seems to be a little trickier with 3 speakers. I recently made the mistake of buying 2x 8ohm speakers for an extension cab before I realized I would need 2x 16 ohms to make it 8ohms to match my combo's internal 8ohm speaker to make 4ohms. So much math.

    I was thinking about the Celestion Cream myself, so I am glad to hear your experience with the sensitivity mismatch with the Creamback M65. I am getting a 1x12 cabinet and am going to try a Jensen Blackbird first as it is a closer sensitivity match to the Creamback M65. You might try a Creamback H75, as that would be a better sensitivity match with the Cream.

    I like your idea of mixing speakers & open/closed back. It sounds like you might need to work on the sensitivity mismatches (unless you like what you are getting with the mismatch) and experiment to get the right combo. I don't really have much experience as I am just dipping my toe into the extension cabinet thing for the first time but have been doing a lot of research on the subject. Speaker tweaking seems like a whole 'nother rabbit hole of obsession that I am trying to keep from falling all the way down...
     
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  3. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    I know what you mean about not wanting to go down another "rabbit hole" but to be honest, the speaker dance is a lot cheaper than the amp or guitar dance. And like most people find, their amp is capable of a lot more than they first realize once they start experimenting with different cabs and speakers. I bet the blackbird and creamback m65 will sound cool together, let me know how it turns out.

    I was definitely thinking about trying the h75 creamback in the 2x12 cab, so I'd be using the whole cream line at once. The only thing stopping me was the fact that I had the t1281 laying around and I thought I would give it a chance before I spring for the creamback h75, seeing as they have some similarities, especially sensitivity. I'll probably toss it in tonight and give it a try before I close up the 2x12 cab.
     
  4. lefty kwan

    lefty kwan Member

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    I believe your 8 ohm combo amp will always be louder than your 16 ohm cab. The lower ohm cab/speaker gets more power than the higher one which is then divided into 2 in your case. I was mixing ohm cabs with one of my amps and ran into this problem.
     
  5. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    Totally worth trying. I bet the Greenbacks will sound good if you already like what you are getting from the Creamback (as they are of the same DNA). I had asked a similar question not long ago about the difference between speakers sharing a cab and speakers in separate cabs and never got much of an answer. Hope you'll share your findings!
     
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  6. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    Actually the cab is 8 ohm as well, since the two speakers are 16ohm, wired for 8 ohm. So the impedence matches the 1x12 for a total impedence of 4 ohms. Which is what I have my amp set at
     
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  7. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    I recently tried a cab with my combo that mismatched ohms-wise. Even though my transformer could handle the mismatch, I didn't like the sound (sounded thin) and attributed that in part to the mismatch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  8. joeprs

    joeprs Member

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    I run my Bad Cat Cub II through my 16 ohm Avatar cab with the amp set at 16 ohms. I don't use the speaker in the Cub because it is 8 ohms. The only other alternative, for me, is to use the combo speaker and 1 of the 2 speakers in the cab, which is an 8 ohm load, which would have to be set at 4 ohms output on the amp.
     
  9. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    I'll definitely come back with my findings, glad someone else is interested in this conundrum. I actually like the greenback reissues more than some people seem to, my only hangup with putting them in the 2x12 is if I decide to use my 2x12 with the yeti. I fear they would be in mortal danger when they got cooking. That being said, I find the creamback m65 to have a warmer midrange and better bass response than the greenbacks, especially in an open back cab.
     
  10. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    yeah, I was doing something similar at one point, bypassing the speaker in my OD35 because at the moment it was an emi cv-75 with 102db sensitivity that would overpower any 2x12 combo I owned. But I just couldnt get over hauling around a speaker that wasn't being used and the monkey logic in my brain kept telling me 3 must be better than 2 haha. With all 3 speakers going it sounds just as big as a 4x12, if not a little bigger since at the moment everything is open back. What speakers were you using in the 2x12?
     
  11. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    So does the Cream overpower the Creamback M65 a good amount?
     
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  12. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    My monkey logic says the same thing, but I am going to experiment with 1x12 extension to go with my 1x12 combo first because I drive a Honda Civic, ha. My monkey brain also tells me what I really want is a 4x10 extension cabinet to go with my 1x12 combo...
     
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  13. Seth L

    Seth L Silver Supporting Member

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    I've got an Orange TH30 combo with a 16 ohm Creamback M, and an open back 2x12 with 2 8ohm Creamback M's wired for 16 ohms. They balance out really well. I think the speaker in your amp is just overpowering the other 2.
     
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  14. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    yeah, i tried it at one point with a mismatch and it was no good. That's why it's so tricky. I've been trying to through an ASW elegante in the mix but it's 8 ohm and 98db. If it were 16 ohm I would try and pair it with the creamback m65. I guess I could try putting the 16 ohm creamback m65 in the 1x12 combo, and the asw elegante and alnico cream in the 2x12. Although it seems like that would be a waste of a $350 dollar speaker since the cream would overpower the elegante... ugh, so many combinations and no ones ears to test them out on but mine. Other non guitar players in my band are like... "uh... yeah, sounds great?" haha
     
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  15. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    That's what I think as well. Hopefully this 100db t1281 will blend well with the alnico cream. Part of me (the monkey brain part that doesn't look at my bank statement) just wants to get another 16 ohm alnico cream (probably my favorite speaker to date) to use instead of the g12m65 and go 8ohm alnico cream in the 1x12 combo, and 16ohm alnico cream and t1281 wired for 8 ohm in the 2x12. I might try it when my tax return arrives. Unless I can get someone on the emporium to trade me a 16 ohm alnico cream for my 8 ohm asw elegante.
     
  16. joeprs

    joeprs Member

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    V30 and G12H30

    I don't move it, currently, so that isn't an issue for me.
     
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  17. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    yeah, by 2 db. The alnico cream is 100db and the creamback is 98db. The creamback does add a little something, maybe a little low end and a bit of sizzle, but it's pretty subtle. Still sounds good, just feels like I maybe wasting a slot for something that would add more flavor to the overall tone.
     
  18. Seth L

    Seth L Silver Supporting Member

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    I went with the same speakers all around to avoid a bunch of drama. Sounds like that's where you're heading.:)
     
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  19. jhall85

    jhall85 Member

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    I have another avatar traditional 2x12 open back with that same configuration and I really like it for cleaner stuff, but it's almost TOO in your face for the higher gain stuff in comparison to the creamback and scumback combo I've got currently. It still sounded very good at just about any setting, but I'm a relentless tweaker and ruled it out as a contender for the OD35. It sounds great with my yeti and my sommatone outlaw for high gain/metal stuff, even with the open back. Also, I think the v30 was robbing the mojo of my alnico cream a little bit.
     
  20. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    Seems like the sensitivity mismatch rule of thumb is less than 3dbs, but I have heard a lot of people that 2dbs is too much and 1db is the most you can get away with if you want the speakers to balance.
     

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