Are am just a fool?

[wrxplayer]

No offense meant.

I've got the GAS. My focus has been on amps as much as guitars the last six months. Buying, selling, swapping, looking for "the tone"--it's all a lot of fun, isn't it? Finding "the best"?!?!?!

I'm playing in a cover band. Rehearsals are weeknights and I generally go straigt from the train station. I decided it would be easier for me to leave an amp at the rehearsal space (lead guitarist's studio). Not wanting to spend much money, I decided on either a Peavey Classic or a Crate Vintage Club. I went with the latter when one an 80s VC5310 became available locally at a decent price.

Took it over to practice and used it last night. WOW. This thing really kicks a$$ in a rock or blues context. Loud, ballsy, great tone out of the box w/o pedals. And CHEAP! Only issue is the thing weighs a ton, which would eliminate it for me if I had to carry it back and forth to gigs regularly.

Which leads me to the obvious question: why am I spending all this money when great (not good) tone can be had for under $400?

 

[Stratofuzz]

Every man must walk his own path. If you are happy at $400 or $4000 does it really matter as long as you are happy?
p.s. hand dollys where made for heavy amps....

 

[blastastick]

Play what makes you happy. Regardless of cost. I have an Engl 520 that was heavily modded, and liked it more than my Bogner Fish and sold it. These can be had for 400.00, and of course the mod cost. Do what you got to do.

 

[sgslinger]

No offense meant.

I've got the GAS. My focus has been on amps as much as guitars the last six months. Buying, selling, swapping, looking for "the tone"--it's all a lot of fun, isn't it? Finding "the best"?!?!?!

I'm playing in a cover band. Rehearsals are weeknights and I generally go straigt from the train station. I decided it would be easier for me to leave an amp at the rehearsal space (lead guitarist's studio). Not wanting to spend much money, I decided on either a Peavey Classic or a Crate Vintage Club. I went with the latter when one an 80s VC5310 became available locally at a decent price.

Took it over to practice and used it last night. WOW. This thing really kicks a$$ in a rock or blues context. Loud, ballsy, great tone out of the box w/o pedals. And CHEAP! Only issue is the thing weighs a ton, which would eliminate it for me if I had to carry it back and forth to gigs regularly.

Which leads me to the obvious question: why am I spending all this money when great (not good) tone can be had for under $400?

Kinda frees you up doesn't it? Imagine that ,now you can practice, work on your technique , improve your chops, study up some theory. Why? because you just figured out that 90% of all of this BS is in the hands and your approach and attitude. good for you mate. Rock on.

Ronnie

 

[wrxplayer]

p.s. hand dollys where made for heavy amps....

If I can find the dolly that will help get the stuff up and down stairs and in and out of cars/vans I'd patent it and be rich!

 

[phillyred79]

Kinda frees you up doesn't it? Imagine that ,now you can practice, work on your technique , improve your chops, study up some theory. Why? because you just figured out that 90% of all of this BS is in the hands and your approach and attitude. good for you mate. Rock on.

Ronnie

Exactly my thoughts.. I've spent an absurd amount of money in the last 2 years only to realize it comes down to my hands, heart, and soul. From Fenders, Oranges, Voxs, Marshalls, Boogies, Ceriatone, Two-Rocks- I've played a lot and at the end of the day I'm no better a player and may have fractionally better tone, but $$$ poorer. I guess the journey is what it is all about they say, but when you finally see the forest from the trees you are left with the obvious fact that the only way to always sound better is to play better is to practice more/better...

 

[JubileeMan 2555]

Kinda frees you up doesn't it? Imagine that ,now you can practice, work on your technique , improve your chops, study up some theory. Why? because you just figured out that 90% of all of this BS is in the hands and your approach and attitude. good for you mate. Rock on.

Ronnie

So... Austin Speakers are no better then any other speaker, 'cause the tone is in the hands?

But to the original poster's question, I think its important to revisit this post in a few weeks/months. ANY gear used for the first time in ONE location may or may not give this reaction. I've had similar WOW moments with real garbage gear, but to soon find out, that particular garbage amp/guitar/pedal was sounding good at that particular location or mood I was in.

Once you've taken it to a few gigs, i'd like to hear if you feel the same way. I personally don't think this "tonequest" of ours is BS. If it was, none of the great guitar players we strive to sound like would be using good gear. They would simply use the cheapest possible stuff since they are professionals and would have figured out its all in the hands. They would then NEVER change the exact rig they use and only own one guitar.
MARKETING of gear is the BS. When hyperbole is used in every new piece of gear for sale, I get weary and try to ignore hype. But undestanding a real '62 strat is probably going to feel and sound better then a cheap hondo knock-off isn't an illusion.

...cheap/low-end gear, at least in my experience, is a deal breaker once I put a mic in front. Rooms can really make any gear sound amazing by changing/canceling out the core sound the gear is putting out. Hearing how the gear sounds recorded can really tell you what might be coming through ultimately.

BTW, I'm really not championing for the super expensive ultra-boutique gear as the best. There is a threshold, imo, that is met where more expensive doesn't mean "Better". No one knows that point, and we continuously argue that fact.

 

[phillyred79]

So... Austin Speakers are no better then any other speaker, 'cause the tone is in the hands?

Nah, he means the other 10% is in HIS speakers!!!

 

[JubileeMan 2555]

Nah, he means the other 10% is in HIS speakers!!!

Touche!

 

[wrxplayer]

But to the original poster's question, I think its important to revisit this post in a few weeks/months. ANY gear used for the first time in ONE location may or may not give this reaction. I've had similar WOW moments with real garbage gear, but to soon find out, that particular garbage amp/guitar/pedal was sounding good at that particular location or mood I was in.

Once you've taken it to a few gigs, i'd like to hear if you feel the same way. I personally don't think this "tonequest" of ours is BS. If it was, none of the great guitar players we strive to sound like would be using good gear. They would simply use the cheapest possible stuff since they are professionals and would have figured out its all in the hands. They would then NEVER change the exact rig they use and only own one guitar.
MARKETING of gear is the BS. When hyperbole is used in every new piece of gear for sale, I get weary and try to ignore hype. But undestanding a real '62 strat is probably going to feel and sound better then a cheap hondo knock-off isn't an illusion.

...cheap/low-end gear, at least in my experience, is a deal breaker once I put a mic in front. Rooms can really make any gear sound amazing by changing/canceling out the core sound the gear is putting out. Hearing how the gear sounds recorded can really tell you what might be coming through ultimately.

BTW, I'm really not championing for the super expensive ultra-boutique gear as the best. There is a threshold, imo, that is met where more expensive doesn't mean "Better". No one knows that point, and we continuously argue that fact.

Agreed. But I note (as coincidence only) that the amp that brought this on is the same basic amp used by Billy Gibbons a few nights ago when he played with the Allmans (yes, perhaps modified). And these are the amps used by many of the acts on last the Crossroads Festival CD (not sure if it was the '08 or '07 concert).

 

[JubileeMan 2555]

Agreed. But I note (as coincidence only) that the amp that brought this on is the same basic amp used by Billy Gibbons a few nights ago when he played with the Allmans (yes, perhaps modified). And these are the amps used by many of the acts on last the Crossroads Festival CD (not sure if it was the '08 or '07 concert).

Perhaps. But anytime an artist is endorsed by any gear maker, lots of questions arise on both if they are actually USING the gear (vs. mic of stage, or gutted...etc) or, if they are using it, if they truely like the sound of it, or just love that they can take the money and play whatever they want.

...put it this way. Do you think we would have given Billy the nickname "Godfather of tone" if he used the wooden Crate amp made in the 70's for the first ZZ top album?

But, I should also note, Theres a big chance your particular amp DOES sound amazing. There are always exceptions to the rule. Crate, in the past decade, has been coming out with more then a few surprises and I shouldn't lump it all into my evaluation.

 

[gulliver]

There is a threshold, imo, that is met where more expensive doesn't mean "Better". No one knows that point, and we continuously argue that fact.

True ... and sometimes when you're chaising a certain tone, the amp you have may be worthless to you even if it sounds great by most people's standards.

...and you can't reproduce, for example, a greenback vibe with your fingers.

 

[sgslinger]

Yeah what Philly said LOL. And Jub you know what I mean ,just trying to keep it light mate, gets to serious around here sometimes.

Our objective is to allow the musician to play and not overwhelm them. I feel we have accomplished that goal. Will our speakers sound better? That is up to the player to decide.

90% is a pretty good score, maybe the lost 10% is in technique. If not maybe it is the speakers!!! LOL

carry on

Ronnie

 

[jmac006]

Which leads me to the obvious question: why am I spending all this money when great (not good) tone can be had for under $400?

That's exactly what I thought when I played through my VC2110 and my VC50H for the first time. These Vintage Clubs really are some great sleeper-amps. Well worth what they're going for these days.

 

[rybass]

Once you've taken it to a few gigs, i'd like to hear if you feel the same way. I personally don't think this "tonequest" of ours is BS. If it was, none of the great guitar players we strive to sound like would be using good gear. They would simply use the cheapest possible stuff since they are professionals and would have figured out its all in the hands. They would then NEVER change the exact rig they use and only own one guitar.
MARKETING of gear is the BS. When hyperbole is used in every new piece of gear for sale, I get weary and try to ignore hype. But undestanding a real '62 strat is probably going to feel and sound better then a cheap hondo knock-off isn't an illusion.

Perhaps. But anytime an artist is endorsed by any gear maker, lots of questions arise on both if they are actually USING the gear (vs. mic of stage, or gutted...etc) or, if they are using it, if they truely like the sound of it, or just love that they can take the money and play whatever they want.

But aren't the artists endorsed by the companies with the expensive gear so therefore they use it b/c it was free/ cheap? They all started somewhere and quite often it was on cheap gear from a pawn shop or hand me downs and still had great tone. Page's tele and supro as an example.

I'm not saying tone comes solely from your hands, that's BS, but gear from a point on gets fractionally different with each $100 you spend. IMO 75% of the tone chase is the bragging rights on the gear and the marketing hype that plays out in ads and on forums. Some players get warm and fuzzy when they look at boutique gear & historic reissue custom shop guitars and that gets them riled up to play and may help them get better tone just from the attitude.

I've personally heard great tone from players with cheap ass gits and cheap ass amps AND I've heard great tone from players with gear that's worth more than most new cars. I've played vintage gear that was awful and some that was amazing, same with new gear and cheap gear. It all comes down to the player finding what fits best and if it costs $200; more money for beer. If it costs $4000; more bragging rights, way less beer.

To me the issue between inexpensive gear and stacks o' bills gear is the satisfaction from owning it vs. the satisfaction of making music. Too many people spend too much time thinking about what they could have rather than what they could make. I'm in a constant battle with it too and a lot of it is peer pressure and marketing, I'll admit.

 

[phillyred79]

The downside of owning expensive gear is A)More expensive to replace/repair B)If that $hit gets stolen then some tears would be a flowin' !

 

[Ryan]

I've tried run of the mill gear, I've tried run of the mill gear modified, I've tried boutique gear, I've tried expensive gear, I've tried cheap gear. To me, the expensive stuff on the whole sounds better.

 

[m@2]

i have found in many cases , and especially with amps, more $$ does not always equate to better tone.

 

[the_Chris]

Do yourself a favor. When you find tone that makes you happy, stop there. Between PRS McCarties/Fender Strats and a Bogner Shiva half stack, I found happiness and I haven't purchased a lick of guitar gear since. I don't care if there's "better" things now because I turn it on and I'm happy. It took YEARS to find that, but atleast I'm smart enough to have stopped at this point. I can't tell you how many thousands I've been through with buying and selling and trading and all that jazz. Find a couple pieces that sound and feel good and don't worry about the pricetag. If it's inexpensive, that doesn't make it "cheap" it just makes it that much better of a deal! While I did settle on a few more expensive pieces myself, I have played some cheaper guitars that sounded fantastic and I've played some really expensive and pretty guitars that sounded terrible, so use your ears as a guide!

Now I need to find that happiness with recording gear and the money's adding up there

Ah, one hobby to the next, who am I kidding? It never ends

 

[splatt]

doesn't matter what it costs, way mucho or nada;
you like it, you oughta play it.

it is, imo, foolish never to learn
how to play the amp;
for that, sometimes ya gotta stick with one amp,
no matter what it is,
for more time than consumerist g.a.s. ever
typically seems to allow.
(presuming, of course, that you've found that
you can play something you love
& need to play with that same amp)

dt / spltrcl