Are Dumble and Trainwreck amps completely original?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by pickslide, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. pickslide

    pickslide Supporting Member

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    Not being facetious here, but I am still learning about these amazing amps. So, I was wondering, given all the hype and the prices (now), when these amps came out were they that much different than anything that was already out there?

    Also, just out of curiosity, does anybody know the price of these amps directly from the builders when they first came out?
     
  2. camelface

    camelface Member

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    The Dumbles are based on twins apparantly. I don't know how close they are to them though.
     
  3. FloridaSam

    FloridaSam Member

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  4. pickslide

    pickslide Supporting Member

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    Define original? I guess were the circuits/designs significantly different from other existing amps like marshall/fender/vox, etc...
     
  5. kevin hart

    kevin hart Supporting Member

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    The prices they command are pretty original.
     
  6. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

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    According to Dumble himself, one of his goals was to replicate the great cranked tweed 5E3 deluxe tone that one can get recording or playing at home, but deliver it in a package that was useable in a loud band environment.

    If you listen to early and later David Lindley and Larry Carlton, when they transitioned from the 5E3 to the Dumble, I'd say he met that goal pretty well.

    Original? I'd call it original application of classic tube amp design concepts.
     
  7. Structo

    Structo Member

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    The main differences are that Ken Fischer built an amp on the verge of instability that has a sound that is best cranked up and the volume control on the guitar is used to clean up the tone.

    The Dumble amps I believe started out as modified Fender amps (Bassman's?)
    But Dumble modified the tone stacks, PI, and overdrive sections to achieve a rather unique tone. Think Larry Carlton and Robben Ford to name a couple.
    Fischer's amps have skyrocketed in price since his death and Dumbles are priced according to supply and demand since he built around 200 amps and doesn't seem to be building anymore these days.
     
  8. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    I remember reading about the Trainwreck in Guitar Player, when it first came out. Boutique was a new thing then, don't even know if the term existed or not, really... But GP gave it a rave review. So at least in their opinion, it represented a new frontier in tone.

    Having compared them with lots of amps, they do exhibit some unique characteristics, which a good player like Geetarpicker can really bring out (volume knob, picking intensity, etc).

    I think the original price was around $1500 to $2000?? Pricey for back then ...

    I've been told the Wreck Express circuit is close to a Bassman circuit. So like most circuits, you borrow a little and tweak it to do something original (hopefully).
     
  9. camelface

    camelface Member

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    no?
     
  10. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes and no, like most products.
     
  11. bynt

    bynt Member

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  12. BIGGERSTAFF

    BIGGERSTAFF Member

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    Unique- yes
    Original- no
     
  13. pickslide

    pickslide Supporting Member

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    I like that answer.
     
  14. paulg

    paulg Supporting Member

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    That's true for almost all guitar amps. There seem to be only so many ways to wire up a tube.
     
  15. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    You'd think that'd be true. Then you look at the guts of a Matchless, which seem to be very basic and pure tonally, but there's all kinds of weird s%$t going on inside them ....

    I guess all that matters is whether you end up with a different tone than the next guy .... hopefully better tone, too, right?
     
  16. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

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    Truth so pure.
     
  17. saltydog3317

    saltydog3317 Member

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    Roben Ford claims the Dumble is close to a Fender Twin.
     
  18. quinnamps

    quinnamps Member

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    2 + 2 = 4

    This is at the heart of all electronics.
    There is nothing new and original and never will be. There is only math and that is it. You may find that you think you have something original.
    You want to get to 4 but without addition, so you multiply.
    How many ways can you get to the number 4 using multiplication?
    With division?
    Starting with the number 1000?
    starting with 1?
    No matter how you slice it there are mathematical laws that cannot be circumvented no matter how much the individual wishes it to be true.
    You cannot create an "original" circuit no more than I can start with 5 and add 7 and the answer will be 4. It's doesn't work. I
    f it did then it was because the laws say it can happen...Not because I say it can happen.

    Some will really hate this view but if one meditates on it long enough the truth of it is revealed. We can't change mathematics.
    Tubes do only what nature says they can do. She is not taking advise on the matter either....
     
  19. matte

    matte Senior Member

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    originality is not a determining factor for me, as regards the value, function(s) and utility of an amplifier. that element speaks more to a builder's "special issues"(daddy!!!!! am i doing the good thing yet?) than anything else. kenny built me 3 wrecks, back in the day. i was fortunate to buy an "86 express and still record with it, in addition to carol-ann, bogner and louis electric amplifiers.

    how does it feel? can i get all of the timbres that i'm looking for? are there an abundance of side bands when the amp is dimed? output transformer saturation? focused low end for muted down stroke parts? huge cleans with ample focused low end for the low a? ease of controlled feedback? i don't give a phuck about mathematics, meditation, laws, etc..... these aren't the things that drew me to music or guitar.
     
  20. camelface

    camelface Member

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    What did Fender base their circuits on? for curiosity's sake. Especially those blackface ones...
     

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