Are non-guitarist influences always hoity-toity?

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Howzaboppin, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Howzaboppin

    Howzaboppin Member

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    All right, this is kind of in jest but maybe just a tiny bit not...

    I was thinking that the baseline behavior of the wannabe guitar player is unavoidably nerdish.

    There's that whole spending days and years learning the instrument, which is not very cool. And then there's that whole being influenced by other players, that takes the level of nerdiness even higher.

    And I'm not talking about being influenced by Rick Wakeman's wardrobe or Jordan Rudess' hairstyle, but being influenced in the way that you play.

    I mean, lifting licks from records (or, these days, tabs) and trying to play like your heroes. Which is kind of geeky but I guess unavoidable if you want to be a guitarist. So yeah, we go through our favorite AC/DC or Zep songs with a fine toothed comb in search of tasty riffs to add to our bag of tricks.

    A bit dorkish, but we are guitar players and that's how we roll.

    But then there's being influenced by non-guitarists, which always seems to me to enter hoity-toity territory.

    You know what I mean, transcribing Coltrane lines (groan), learning Bill Evans harmonic concepts (dude, leave some chicks for the rest of us) or copping Sonny Stitt licks (God help us).

    What I wonder is, can there be a non-guitarist influence that is not hoity-toity? I can't think of any... Copying Jerry Lee Lewis R'n'R riffs? Lifting ideas from Stevie Wonder's keyboard solos? Transcribing Robert Plant's scat lines?

    In summary, are non-guitarist influences always hoity-toity, or can they be rock n'roll?

    And now with your permission, I have to go cop some Sonny Stitt licks... :rockin
     
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  2. Darby Crash

    Darby Crash Member

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    I try to incorporate Viv Savage phrasing and note selection into my playing.
     
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  3. twoheadedboy

    twoheadedboy Member

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    Lots of bassists are copying Jamerson, and lots of drummers are copying Bonham.
     
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  4. sahhas

    sahhas Supporting Member

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    Adrian Belew was influenced by animal noises.
    Steve Stevens was inspired by sci fi sounds.
     
  5. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Member

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    I used to play recordings of mainstream orchestral music a lot for my son when he was little. Mozart, Bach, that sort of thing - he loved it. Anyway, I found some of the melodies were coming through in my playing style. One time I used some bigger interval jumps than usual in a solo. The other guitarist had recorded it and next rehearsal he asked me "Where did you come up with that?" It was inspired by a Strauss waltz. But to this day I think he didn't really believe me.

    I've been inspired by the sounds of nature sometimes. Movies too. But the derivation of the ideas is less direct than inspiration from music, so not as easily identified.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  6. ned7flat5

    ned7flat5 Member

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    I transcribe the anguished cries and pleadings of those unfortunates I have chained in my basement .
     
  7. jblake

    jblake Member

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    The trumpet was my first instrument and a lot of my phrasing and technique comes from that. The day that I wrapped my head around recreating stacked horn lines on guitar I felt like I had discovered fire.
     
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  8. Jayyj

    Jayyj Supporting Member

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    I've never cared about whether there's any guitar in a recording I'm listening to, so inevitably there are lots of records that have influenced me a huge amount as a musician have little to no guitar on them. Brian Eno's been a massive influence on my playing over the years for example.

    It's never occurred to me to worry that it made me hoity toity, and if anyone decided to judge me on it I'd rather think it was a rather hoity toity thing for them to do.
     
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  9. 2020jan08

    2020jan08 Member

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    Hoity Toity? Sound like a ten-dollar hooker on Toidy Toid street!
     
  10. Doomrider78

    Doomrider78 Member

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    Can you define what that means, or is it part of the ancient an esoteric TGP language that only it's high table are privileged enough to share?
     
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  11. 2020jan08

    2020jan08 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. soulman969

    soulman969 Member

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    Nothin' wrong with expanding your repertoire by any means possible.
     
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  13. Jayyj

    Jayyj Supporting Member

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    It's an old English expression, means behaviour that suggests someone thinks they're better than you for spurious reasons, like being into classical music instead of rock or being able to answer questions about what a Van Haven is.
     
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  14. ivers

    ivers Member

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    I dunno..it seems like a nice way to get some different ideas and maybe break out of a rut of playing patterns that fall easy on the guitar. But what Holdsworth did with his non-guitaristic influences also expanded the idea of what the guitar is, and I think at this point several of his ideas are seen as established guitar vocabulary/techniques.
     
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  15. TheMemoryEstate

    TheMemoryEstate Member

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    Aluminum can kicking down the street can be daunting
    :dunno
     
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  16. Overdriver18

    Overdriver18 Member

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    Maybe I don't understand the question. It seems like you're limiting yourself to only take influence from guitar players, right? There's lots of amazing music being made by people who don't play guitar, don't include it in their music, or come from a non-guitar foundation. If I take a look at my top 10 most listened to artists, 7 of them are better described as synth/sampler/bass focused writers.
     
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  17. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    So much facepalm here ...

    I'm a musician first and a guitarist second. If that's "hoity-toity" to you, I really don't care.
     
  18. Flyin' Brian

    Flyin' Brian Member

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    Simply no.
    Guitarists are already the most incestuous musicians when it comes to influences.
    My playing and especially improvising got way better as soon as l started transcribing Chet Baker and Paul Desmond solos.
     
  19. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    word.
    maybe not so much “hoity toity” on their part; maybe more like the self-appointingness of We, The Marshals of Socio-Musical Correctness (ie, Political Correctness); even given the quasi-jokiness, it still smells a little funny. (funny-rank, i mean).


    make the music you want or need to make, don’t worry about how the, sheesh, “optics” of whomever (or whatever) it was/is that influences you appears to those Marshals.
    truth is good, whether or not you ever reveal to anyone else any of it.

    like my aussie brother’s bumper sticker says,
    “f*** you, f***ers!”

    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  20. WordMan

    WordMan Silver Supporting Member

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    The OP’s issue is about musicianship and learning. Guitarists are a suspicious and cowardly lot...hang on, wrong reference. Guitarists are notoriously not schooled in Theory and such. When one of us bites the bullet and starts actually trying to apply Craft and Theory to what they are doing, they seem like.....music nerds!!!! And everyone knows that guitarists are too cool to be music nerds. I mean, come on!

    A far better question is: for someone who is actually digging in, what is the hoity-toitiest, er, coolest, nerdiest, most badass thing you would cop to as the thing you’re digging into?

    Don’t worry, I already know the answer: I was reading an interview of Charlie Hunter. He said he gave up playing his guitar for two months, so he could woodshed on the drums and “really work on the And of Four.”

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020

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