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Are pedals and amps the same regarding cost?

Tarmac

Senior Member
Messages
1,045
In regards to cost and materials etc, combined with 'tone'?

I mean, is an expensive Dr Maz combo just as mute in rubbish hands as a Klon? -

and for the same reason I don't need a Klon do have good tone, do I really need a Dr Maz combo for good tone?

So are they both the same pedals and amps?

A lot of them are expensive, but they're not really going to improve beyond cheaper rivals? :huh
 

78deluxe

Member
Messages
5,355
Amp is far more important for tone than pedals are.

However, a great player can get really good tone with a slightly modded Blues Pro Jr.

I can honestly say I've heard a master player with a Pro Blues Jr with better tone than an sub average player with a 5K Komet

However the master player with the Komet = :omg
 

jondom22

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,409
Nels Cline wrote a good piece that touches on the whole idea of tone vs. skill, in what he called "Amp du Jour"

http://www.nelscline.com/tech.html

Scroll down to the page until you see a drawing of an amp that says "Amp du Jour" on it and read on from there
 

Blues Lyne

Member
Messages
3,463
It's really no different than most things in life. For instance, buying a Ferrari isn't going to make you a better driver. However, it may make driving more fun. A great driver will still outdrive you using an average car. However pair a great driver with a great, responsive car and the driver will be able to maximize their skills because the care responds better to the nuances of their driving.

Same with camera's, cooking utensils, artists pens and brushes, etc.

Depending on the amp or pedals you have, a better amp or pedal may make an improvement in tone. A great player will most likely be able to pull good tones out of average gear. Often one of the things that makes better amps and pedals better is their responsiveness. Pair a great player with a great responsive amp and he'll be able to pull more out of it because it will respond even better to the same playing skills and nuances that allowed him to pull good tones out of an average amp. Put someone with less skill on the same gear and they may sound better than with their gear (it all depends on what "their" gear is), but they probably won't be able to pull the same nuances out of the gear that the great player does. It may also reveal the players weaknesses, since it will also be more responsive to the bad habits and imperfections in their playing. At that point you have to decide if it is really worth the money knowing that you can't pull the most out of the amp, or if it will inspire you to improve to the point where you can. Sometimes it's great to get gear that reveals your flaws because it pushes you to get better.

For most of us there is a level of gear that allows us to express ourselves and sound good doing it, but going much higher on the gear continuum brings diminishing benefits with increasing cost.
 

Tarmac

Senior Member
Messages
1,045
It's really no different than most things in life. For instance, buying a Ferrari isn't going to make you a better driver. However, it may make driving more fun. A great driver will still outdrive you using an average car. However pair a great driver with a great, responsive car and the driver will be able to maximize their skills because the care responds better to the nuances of their driving.

Same with camera's, cooking utensils, artists pens and brushes, etc.

Depending on the amp or pedals you have, a better amp or pedal may make an improvement in tone. A great player will most likely be able to pull good tones out of average gear. Often one of the things that makes better amps and pedals better is their responsiveness. Pair a great player with a great responsive amp and he'll be able to pull more out of it because it will respond even better to the same playing skills and nuances that allowed him to pull good tones out of an average amp. Put someone with less skill on the same gear and they may sound better than with their gear (it all depends on what "their" gear is), but they probably won't be able to pull the same nuances out of the gear that the great player does. It may also reveal the players weaknesses, since it will also be more responsive to the bad habits and imperfections in their playing. At that point you have to decide if it is really worth the money knowing that you can't pull the most out of the amp, or if it will inspire you to improve to the point where you can. Sometimes it's great to get gear that reveals your flaws because it pushes you to get better.

For most of us there is a level of gear that allows us to express ourselves and sound good doing it, but going much higher on the gear continuum brings diminishing benefits with increasing cost.
Thank you very much for this response.

I thought they'd be similar.

I suppose it would be like comparing two similar tube combos - to two similarly designed TS circuits and battling out the differences.

As I said in my OP, I've been eyeing a Dr Z maz 18 combo.

For the cost of it however, it's probably not worth it for me, or at least right now I don't think it would be worth it.

Or would it? - I don't know.
 

Blues Lyne

Member
Messages
3,463
Thank you very much for this response.

I thought they'd be similar.

I suppose it would be like comparing two similar tube combos - to two similarly designed TS circuits and battling out the differences.

As I said in my OP, I've been eyeing a Dr Z maz 18 combo.

For the cost of it however, it's probably not worth it for me, or at least right now I don't think it would be worth it.

Or would it? - I don't know.
It's hard to say without trying one. To me it's not even just an expensive amp vs. skill question, but matching amp to players technique and style as well. I love AC30 tones, but I don't tend to get the best out of an AC30. I assume if I bought one and really worked at it, that could change. But, I naturally respond better to Fender style amps (or maybe they respond better to me).

What amp do you have now? To me an amp is a very important part of the equation and an amp can hold you back to a certain extent. Going from a Peavey Bandit to a Trainwreck may not make much sense, but moving up to a nice mid priced tube amp could make total sense. Like I said there is a point (and it's different for each player) where there will be diminishing returns as you move beyond, but that also means that you could see great improvement as you move up towards that point.
 

ERGExplorer

Member
Messages
6,051
To me it's not even just an expensive amp vs. skill question, but matching amp to players technique and style as well.
I think this hits the nail on the head.

I know a lot of classical players who, due to the nature of their instruments, have a delay between playing and sounding. Cello is a great example of how bowing takes a moment to get a sound. Great cello players anticipate that delay.

On TGP, there are some discussions about how a theoretical delay of a few milliseconds, equivalent to having one's head three feet from a speaker, is unbearable. Such gear, like a cello, just isn't responsive enough. That's why Yo Yo Ma will never amount to anything. *laugh* (I'm not sure if that delay is with blind testing, or just their "feeling." I've had enough friends not notice such delays when they misunderstand and don't realize that they're playing through the gear they have criticized in the past... but I'm sure no one on TGP is so subjective.)

There are, of course, those who are as adaptable as cello players, and such gear can work for them.

It's a bit of a shame that there are many divo who either just cannot adapt, or who cannot overcome their expectations and just play....
 






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