Are the small Apogee devices THAT much better?

[Gasp100]

First off, I know Apogee is well reveared in recording studios and I know they make great stuff. But, I'm turned off by their 'personal' or home studio products because they are MAC only. The form factor seems kind of weird to me, I much prefer a rackable unit even in my modest home studio. BUT, is the quality of the ad conversion, pre's, etc... THAT MUCH better than something from Focusrite, MOTU, Avid/Digidesign, even Line 6? I'm just wondering here, I may be considering a new recording interface and might even consider a MAC to go along with it... IF the difference in quality is discernable and yields amazing results.
Just for background I would be doing mostly instrumental (guitar, bass, synth, programmed drums) using the AxeFX, loops, etc...

 

[Gasp100]

What about the RME Babyface?

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php

Seems like a competitor, no?

 

[loudboy]

Just for background I would be doing mostly instrumental (guitar, bass, synth, programmed drums) using the AxeFX, loops, etc...

Why do you need converters for any of that?

Apogee stuff is nice, but I'm also baffled as to why they'd just dismiss 90% of their potential market, by being Mac only.

 

[Gasp100]

Why do you need converters for any of that?

Apogee stuff is nice, but I'm also baffled as to why they'd just dismiss 90% of their potential market, by being Mac only.

I just meant your standard A/D conversion from analog signals into the computer. In my case I'm not sold on using the digital outs from the AxeFX because you need to clock @48Khz and set the AxeFX as the master source (if you only have two devices). So, if I use digital with the AxeFX and I just want to then playback music or whatever I either have to turn on the AxeFX or I have to manually reconfigure the audio interface to clock internal vs. external source.
So right now I'm using analog outs from the AxeFX which are line level, so it needs to accept at least two line level inputs.
I "may" record voice, acoustic guitar, shaker/percussion etc... in the future so at least one mic me pre would be beneficial, perferably two.
MIDI I/O is not essential but would be great because I already have a USB midisport, but it eats up another USB connection which takes up some speed on the shared USB bus.
But, as I price out MAC's and Macbooks and then consider the price of the Apogee stuff it's pretty far outside my range.
That RME Babyface actually has much nice I/O than the Apogee's but some would argue the whole USB vs. firewire (which I'm not convince about, I've had good luck with both) but the Babyface will work with USB 3.0. That's also pricey... as much as a good deal on an Eleven Rack which may have lesser converter's/pre's but a much cooler interface and of course all of the amp/cab/effect modeling built in....

 

[NR2112]

Good Topic. Im interested to hear some users responses. I too have wondered whats hot about Apogee...

 

[c94123]

I'm no recording engineer or audiophile so take this for what it's worth. At home I have used the Line6 Toneport, MBox2 and the Apogee Duet at various times for my computer audio interface. I have not tried the MOTU products but hear very good things about them. My setup at home consists of an iMac, the Duet, a Boss DR-880, an Axe-FX and a pair of Wharfedale monitors. The AFX and DR-880 go into inputs one and two on the Duet (obviously both mono). My main uses are identical to yours. I also use this system for listening to iTunes, Pandora, etc. as well as playing along to backing tracks.

I disliked the Line6 unit the most. Upon playback everything sounded very muffled or dead to me. It was like there was an additional layer of cloth over my speakers. Didn't really notice it until I A/B'd it with the MBox. What came out of the speakers was much clearer. I heard things I hadn't heard before in recordings. The same thing happened when I tried the Duet. There was a very distinct clarity to what was coming out of my system with the Duet. (Note that this was an older version of the MBox). I am very pleased from a sonic perspective with the Duet. You hear everything very clearly. The differences to a standard listener are probably extremely small - but they seem to be there. I'm sure someone with a trained ear would tell you that the differences are more than small. I'm sure there are pieces like the Duet which are as good or better - I just haven't tried one yet.

That being said, I do wish there were more input and output options. I also have some FBT Verve 8ma's that I'd like the option of switching to from my DAW without adding any other equipment. I'd also like my Axe-FX and Dr-880 inputs to be stereo but you can't have everything. Maybe someone can develop a new breakout cable that could do this? I don't know.

I'm very curious to see how the new Avid/Digidesign MBox's get reviewed. The MBox pro looks like it could have everything I want if it sounds good. Would like to try a MOTU Traveler or Ultralite as well. I think they would give the Duet a good test with additional functionality and capability as well.

Overall, the Duet is very limited in functionality but it does what it was designed to do very, very well. And it is dead ass simple to use. At $350 or so used, I don't see these as being crazy expensive.

 

[jmoose]

Apogee stuff is nice, but I'm also baffled as to why they'd just dismiss 90% of their potential market, by being Mac only.

Well... Apple made a heavy investment into Apogee several years ago, just like they bought EMagic which used to have Logic as its flagship product. From there I think most of 'ya can do the math...

Truthfully converters are the LEAST important thing when it comes to signal path and making a record. Not saying they don't matter or make a difference... but in the grand scheme of things that add up they're really at the bottom of the barrel.

Plug a great mic like, say $3000 tube mic into a $500 motu box and its gonna sound pretty good. Plug a $200 condenser into a $3000 converter and its still gonna sound like a $200 mic.

Plenty of records were made in the '80s and '90s with converters are far, far inferior to what's on even the most basic Maudio box today, and those records still sound pretty good no?

With few exceptions most current offerings range anywhere from 'acceptable' to 'perfectly good' without spending tons of cash. I've been running a Motu 24IO and 2408mkIII for the last few years... can't say the sonics have ever gotten in the way of anything, nor has the gear ever registered a snide remark from any clients, even the gear snobs. Plug stuff in and it comes back without sounding offensive. Its really a non issue.

Don't get me wrong, I can easily hear a difference between the Motu rig, Mytek AD, and the cheap Maudio box that I slave the Mytek too... but the difference between the Mytek & Motu isn't as extravagant as the difference between using, say that Nuemann tube mic or an Sm57 for the lead vocal.

There are only a couple of companies that actually make the converter chips themselves. The vast majority of difference between a $500 digidesign box and a $5000 converter is in the analog circuit that surrounds the chips. That, and economies of scale are in full effect...

 

[Gasp100]

Excellent, thanks guys. I'm not going to get too nuts this time. If at all possible I should probably just keep the conversion to a minimum anyway by just using the digital outs on the AxeFX to keep it all in the digital domain.

 

[ksandvik]

Stay away from Line 6 audio interfaces. Get an Apogee . Or the new Motu Microbooks are also nice.

 

[Vegas Bob]

I've been using the Apogee Duet into Logic Studio with excellent results.
Does everything I need it to do.

 

[funkycam]

I run an Apogee minime with a pc.
I'ts really clean, great unit.

 

[iaresee]

Well: it just works. Every time. No crashing. No endless driver tweaking. I turn on my iMac and it's there -- working beautifully every time.

That's worth a little extra cash to me.

Can't say I had the same nice experience with the M-Audio gear I replaced with my Duet.

The interface is lovely.

My only gripe with it is the breakout cable. Don't like. Keep meaning to buy one of those third party boxes with the built in Jensen transformers on the speaker outs because I do get noticeable hum on my speakers when the system is idling.

For the $400 I spent on it I can't think of anything I'd rather have bought. I'm contemplating moving up to a MoTU UltraLite MkIII because I want more outputs for easier re-amping with the AxeFx. But if I was to stay with the Duet + iMac + Logic 8 combo I'm running forever more I'd be happy. Does all I need it to. Never crashes. I'm good.

 

[c94123]

I will echo what iaresee said above. It just works. I too have never had a technical problem with the Duet. I never have to think about it. My MBox did cause some technical issues.