Are we close to the last generation of modelers?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by James Freeman, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. motokev

    motokev Member

    Messages:
    3,952
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Utah
    Are we close to the last generation of modelers?

    I don't think so.
    Company technology is usually a few years ahead of product release.
    And technology seems to advanced every year.
    Creative minds will continue to push the envelope.

    BUT, once they reach the dynamic feel of a good TUBE AMP, it might end.
     
    zuel69 likes this.
  2. primal

    primal Member

    Messages:
    435
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Very true, you got me there.

    I do think you would have the same problem listening to your amp mic'd as you do listening to a modeler through FRFR. Atleast in my opinion. So in the end, it's not really the "amp" modeling I think.
     
    MIJLOVER and AuntieDiluvian like this.
  3. AzCat

    AzCat Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    260
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    No.

    The next "killer app" in modeling will be adding usability & accessibility to the staggering array of options we presently have. Kick on a high end modeler and you're confronted with flat lists of dozens of reverbs, hundreds of amps, thousands of cabs, etc. Those aren't options, they're data. Wholly inaccessible data that you can successfully interact with only via burning a lot of time scrolling through the lists.

    Think about the process: Choose an amp from the hundreds that are available when you first power one of these units on. How? Guess? Luck? Best case you have some idea what you want but that's not a great recipe for finding new ideas. Maybe listen to some tunes, research the gear, ask around, read lots of stuff on forums, etc. But that's pretty low-density information wise. It can soak up a lot of time you'd rather be playing and, given the vast array of options, you're going to forget what you spent time learning in the first place pretty quickly. It's like looking for a particular piece of information by walking through a library occasionally pulling down random volumes to see if they contain what you're after. You may find it eventually but there's got to be a better way. Modeling isn't even at the level of having an analog to the paper card catalog yet we're forced to wander around pulling random volumes hoping they're what we're after. Luckily everything sounds great these days so it's a good time but there's got to be a better way. Once someone develops it it'll make no difference whether there are dozens, hundreds or thousands of models (cabs, reverbs, delays, etc.), they'll be quickly & easily accessible in exactly the way they aren't today.

    Certainly the world is a dull and feature-poor place that needs as many options as can be stuffed into it but merely populating the endless lists of things in these boxes with ever-greater numbers of models that in turn become ever-less-accessible is far less entertaining than it should be.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
    Quad4 likes this.
  4. hookstratton

    hookstratton Member

    Messages:
    212
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Slums of Agoura
    I leave my old Vox Tonelab at a jam house where everyone plays DI'd w/headphones, (I just bring mini pedal board) - and I'm shocked at how good it holds up at times! That unit has a "feel" to it, which seems possibly more "hardware" than software related...

    So maybe next gen will contain miniature bits of really specific choice analog (Neve style pre/eq, or 1176 stuff, say) mixed in with it - and make it modular?
     
  5. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,437
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    5868 ft above sea level
    Really? I'd bet you that the vast majority of non-guitar players don't think of tubes. Maybe a combo or stack, but tubes? I don't buy it.
     
  6. Fr3shMak3r

    Fr3shMak3r Whatever Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    399
    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Location:
    CT
    This isn’t a thing. Companies put out the best they have at any given time because if they don’t, another company will beat them to market with something equal or better and they risk losing that market share.
     
    AuntieDiluvian likes this.
  7. scott58

    scott58 Member

    Messages:
    5,574
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Location:
    Northwest, indiana
    Sure you are. The 4x10 cab sim goes great with my 12" Lady Luck.
     
  8. GtrGeorge!

    GtrGeorge! Member

    Messages:
    1,918
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Lawn Guy-Land
    GtrGeorge: "Again, Spot On. You have FOUND the intersection few want to speak about: namely, Art versus Commerce. Maybe that's a bit vague...let me be specific: It isn't WORTH it for those companies to ale what you want. It interferes with their business plan.
    I went thru this years ago with XXXXX Company. I asked,pleaded,made my case/but to no avail. Its time to decide for yourself , of a company is REALLY interested in serving your needs. I have made up MY mind."
     
    mtmartin71 likes this.
  9. toomanyamps

    toomanyamps Member

    Messages:
    1,661
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    I think at this point the problem is mostly not the modeling, rather the cheap FRFR speakers people send the signal to.
     
    2pods, Phil M and AuntieDiluvian like this.
  10. rezidentura

    rezidentura Member

    Messages:
    535
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Location:
    Detroit
    Modelers are very good now but the next thing the thing that will really knock your sox off? Maybe AI what if instead of endless menus or computer interfaces you could speak to your modeler: “Zeus dial me up a Petrucci like patch, now give me more gain , Would you like me to map that to your pedalboard?... This is not for the old school but as younger pros enter the music space their gonna want things there used to
     
  11. AuntieDiluvian

    AuntieDiluvian Member

    Messages:
    986
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2019
    Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding......


    We have a winner, folks!
     
    2pods likes this.
  12. SleepingSG

    SleepingSG Member

    Messages:
    332
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    I mean it as In ask any piano player which piano they want to play
     
  13. makeitstop

    makeitstop Member

    Messages:
    939
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Location:
    Somewhere in New York
    I tend to look at most factory presents in modelers (I use a Mooer GE-300) more as a demo of what the unit can do instead of stuff that I'll actually use. It takes a little scrolling and checking at first to find out which models sound best (you can't always go by what they call them, and something you might not consider using might get a lot closer to the sound you really want), but I eventually end up using 3 or 4 amp models total and pair them up with different guitars/pickups. Even playing in a cover band, I don't see the use in going any deeper than that - I can get just about everything done with just a few models.

    I once bought a Line 6 Pod XT Live and a Variax at the same time, and I totally dove in and set up between 20 and 30 models for the band I was in at the time. As cool as some of it was, I'll never do that again. I ended up programming way more than I was playing. Now I set up a handful of amps and I'm ready for anything.

    As for whether modeling is at the end, I'm not sure if it even matters. As long as what you've got does what you need or want it to do, it really doesn't matter what comes out after it. But I do like the Mooer stuff (the GE-300 replaced the GE-200, which I use in my studio now), and when they roll out the successor to the 300 I'll definitely take a long look at it.
     
  14. MrDoty

    MrDoty Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,490
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2007
    Location:
    sf bay
    are we on the "last generation" of computers? NO FREAKING WAY!!!!! modeling is the same, with more processing power comes more detail and complexity. I cant wait till the modelers of the future come out, and that lightweight power-amp that actually sounds like a tube power-amp. to me modeling is just getting started, everything before this were getting close to useable...were totally useable now. shoot none of these stupid things even have built in wireless yet unless im out of the loop.
     
  15. markjsmith

    markjsmith Member

    Messages:
    3,530
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Location:
    Mission Viejo, Ca.
    There will be no "last generation" of modelers unless there is a different technology that makes everyone abandon modeling. There is no last generation of amps!
     
  16. Elric

    Elric Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,136
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    FWIW, my modelers sound quite a bit better than my tube amps in some applications right now...
     
  17. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    9,326
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Pshaw. I bet you probably think a Rhodes, or Wurly, or upright acoustic piano sound better than a 9' Steinway in some applications too?!?!?
     
  18. Caprica

    Caprica Member

    Messages:
    1,477
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Location:
    Orion Nebula
    I would argue we have seen the last generation

    All we get now are either cheaper versions of existing modelers with less blocks or the existing modelers with more blocks
     
  19. James Freeman

    James Freeman Member

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    I see there are a few camps regarding this question.

    * Lol, not even close, where is my polyphonic mandolin detuner?
    * I hear a bzzz phrrrrgggshhh sound when I bend the strings with ALL modeler, tube amps don't do that.
    * Technology moves on, same as with smart phones there will always be the next generation of modelers.
    * Recorded tones and amp simulations are there (or getting very close to), but acoustic simulation (speakers simulation into a frfr setup) is not.
    * We are there since the 90's, I will never buy a tube amp again, they are heavy and obsolete.

    Personally, I'm in the "amp simulation and recorded sound is very accurate, room tones not so much yet".
    I use my Helix Preamps into the Return of my tube amp with a typical JCMP800 power stage and Vintage 30's speakers, I still can't get that sound on my studio monitors just yet.
    As for recorded tones, using any of the top of the line modelers you will not be able to tell the difference in a blind test.

    Also, from what I read people will not join to modelers band wagon not because the modeling is not accurate enough, but because they can't recreate what they hear acoustically in the room with their real amp.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
    rd2rk likes this.
  20. Emigre

    Emigre Member

    Messages:
    3,121
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Off topic perhaps but I never felt the need to speak to any of my computers.

    I mean, it's a computer. Its main mode of communication is buttons and flashing lights. Quit trying to become the next Skynet :p
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice