Asking for details about Fender White Amp. Have anyone heard about it?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by neteraser, May 8, 2018.

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  1. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    It has nothing to do with helping the Stratocaster at all. The White was designed as a tribute to a friend, Forest White. Most books are repeating the same information that is mostly incorrect. (For instance, the serial number AS0001 that was given to Forest White was not the first off the assembly line. They started off using the old four number serial, with no letter prefix. They made them up until 1962. Made at least a bit over 1000 of the actual amplifiers)

    There are at least 4 different versions of the circuit, with six possible power and six possible outputs transformers. None were push/pull designs. There is no phase inverter in this circuit, making a push/pull design based around this circuit absolutely impossible. (For those not designing/making amplifiers, one fundamental difference between single ended and push/pull amplifiers has to do with the either using a driver, which puts all the signal into one tube, or a phase inverter which splits into two different signals running to at least two different power tubes (or a dual triode which is two tubes in one bottle). So, the only thing to retain out of a White amp circuit to use in a push/pull amplifier is the initial gain stage, which is almost a universal gain stage.

    I have been inside of over 50 different White amplifiers, currently own 10. I spent a few years backwards engineering all the nuances of the White amplifiers, and make the only correct version available anywhere. We also make a White Amplifier pedal with an identical circuit, with jFets replacing the actual tubes. We contacted Fender, and the White family to make sure everything was cleared before we reinstated the Federal trademark, and we rebuilt our amplifiers to be as close to the originals as possible.
     
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  2. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    Can't agree. Not only possible, but also nothing new and has been done before - Fender did a Class AB version of the Champ - it's called Super Champ, and although it's a different thing, it retains some spirits to an extent. What's on my desk is a little more correct to the original, in my opinion.
     
  3. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    Could you please tell me what does the trademark cover to avoid any possible collision beforehand?
    I've checked and haven't found any single hit of the word "white" in the registry - it's always "white + something", so I thought it's impossible to patent the "White" word alone, but who knows.
    I don't mind if you decide to keep this information intact, then I'll get in touch with an agency.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  4. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    I get that you feel your amp sounds the same as the White (assuming you've owned a White to compare it to?) but I'm with Satellite here, there's just no way a Class AB, push-pull amp is going to respond IN ALL CONDITIONS like a single-ended amp (and doubtful that a 6922 can be made to overdrive exactly like a 6V6). The harmonics are different because the shape of the wave as overdrive commences is different. Further, there's the issue of crossover distortion. And the different asymmetries with a PI vs only a driver. I'm not going to be able to test it with my own ears, since I don't see ordering an amp from Russia any time soon (the shipping would kill me, I"m sure) but I've also never seen a White amp for sale (although I do have a tweed Princeton).

    The comment about the SuperChamp is interesting, because the SuperChamp and the Champ sound nothing alike. The only thing they really share is the name!
     
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  5. ducker 1

    ducker 1 Member

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    I bought one back in the late 70s--sold it to a vintage dealer here in Portland for $150 back in 92 I paid $25 for it at Day Music --cool lil amp wish I hadnt sold it
     
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  6. Hulakatt

    Hulakatt Supporting Member

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    Yeah, the SuperChamp is more like a gained up Princeton Reverb than anything close to a Champ, tweed or otherwise.
     
  7. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Given the amount of preamp gain and the voicing, I'd say it's closer to a small Mesa than anything truly Fender!
     
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  8. Hulakatt

    Hulakatt Supporting Member

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    Well, the world was moving in that direction at the time and Fender was trying to play catch up. Maybe not appreciated at the time but it is a sweet little fire breather of an amp ;) but it's certainly nothing like a BF or tweed Champ.
     
  9. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    Yup, still got my PRII, although I eventually sold both of the SCs. Oh, and I have a Champ 12, which is close to the clean channel of the SC.
     
  10. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    I didn't say it will. There doesn't have to be a literal match, you know, they're different amps. All you said seems to be correct, I'm going to argue none of that.

    Let me add just that they share some small conceptual likeness. In my amp it's a little more accurate, like I already tried to say.
    And no, I'm certain the Champ name is there for a reason.

    Have I posted anything like this? It obviously doesn't sound the same, and even if it did, I wouldn't straight out post it, but yes the tone is quite tweed-resembling, and somewhat like the 5F2-A Princeton. I never heard the White amp. But 270k resistors have shifted the concept towards what I think could have been the White amp. That's all I can say. I think it also had a little lower impedance OT, which I'm going to try too.

    Kudos to Satellite for making an authentic reissue. I'm not doing it, but rather just something 5F2-A-inspired, see? Not claiming it's the same, just that it shares _some_ design principles of those models. Not a literal match. Some of it. Hope you understand.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  11. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    No. It's a Champ. Don't be confused by the PI. The way it's set up is different from the Princeton. Also the OT specs there are nowhere close to the PR. They wanted it to be Champ-like and made some tweaks for it to be possible. When you know what really is/was going on at Fender, you know it all makes sense, and they just don't stupidly release "a product with a different name". It's not what Fender is.

    Damit I hate standing my position. Don't you guys make me feel that way.

    But I agree it sounds different. But nothing yet something.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  12. ducker 1

    ducker 1 Member

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  13. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    Nah, whatever. I'm 30, not 20.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  14. Hulakatt

    Hulakatt Supporting Member

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    You mean like the 4x10 5f6a tweed Bassman which became the brown Concert which became the black face Super Reverb? Or the tweed Super which became the black face Vibrolux? Fender played fast and loose with the names throughout it's own history, all the way back to Leo. The closest thing the Super Champ has in common with any other Champ besides it's name is it's place as the little guy in the lineup.
     
  15. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    The Federal Trademark means that in the United States, we have the absolute rights to making an amplifier called a White Amplifier, a White Higher Fidelity Amplifier, the cosmetics of the logo, and the cosmetics of the physical look, including the control panel.

    You can have an amplifier model that comes in a white color, but the model name itself cannot be White amplifier. For more clarification of that, it is best to consult an actual intellectual property attorney.
     
  16. SatelliteAmps

    SatelliteAmps Member

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    As I said previously, to change an amplifier that is Class A single ended, into a push/pull Class AB amplifier means that everything from the driver/inverter stage has to be changed, which changes the entirety of the amplifier. It sounds like you have an amplifier that has a basic tweed preamp married to a customized power section. This is nothing close to the White amplifier in sound or design. Honestly, before you compare it to what you think a White should sound like, you may want to actually hear what you are comparing it to. Good luck.
     
  17. neteraser

    neteraser Member

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    Thank you!

    Customized Class AB power section that is White amp-inspired - it's sharing 270k grid leak resistors and 0.02 coupling caps, simple as that. Do you see anything wrong with that? As I explained I wasn't aiming at copying everything.
    Besides, we're talking a $225-325 model. Hope you understand.
     
  18. 84Bravo

    84Bravo Member

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    In fifty years, I’ve only seen one real one. Cool little amp.
     
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  19. jimbo13

    jimbo13 Supporting Member

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    I owned one and it is nothing really special. The somewhat limited numbers add to the hype but other than that they are on par with the other small tweed amps of the era.
     
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  20. SnidelyWhiplash

    SnidelyWhiplash Supporting Member

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    Maybe so, but I think they are just so damned cool looking. Plus, the inclusion of the schematic is just the bee's knees... ;)
     
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