Atomic Ampli-fire box

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by partytrain, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Member

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    @wedewer Booooooooooo It's 2018, STOP complaining about others "complaining." If I'm reading your posts correctly you don't even own or use an AFB. You use a Kemper and A12 and came to this thread specifically to say, "This thread is an example of the main reason I am not on TGP as much as I used to be." Hallelujah!

    Atomic is happy to get feedback about their products. Anyone who makes a product is happy to get feedback on how they can make their product better or more useful. Atomic responded to the same conversations around delay not being present on the AFB by adding it. Delay along with reverb made the AFB a more complete all-in-one solution AND caused more people to buy it. You characterize these conversations about ways to make the product better or more useful as "complaining" but it isn't, it is valuable feedback for a company who is trying to make products that it can sell to the most people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  2. wedewer

    wedewer Supporting Member

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    What does 2018 have to do with anything. Does that wipe the whiny complaining TGP slate clean or something? My post wasn't specifically about just this thread, my comment was about the digital forum in general. For me, this thread was just a shining example of what I am talking about. "We are just trying to help them make the product better". Well almost any product on the planet can be made better in one way or another. But people that build gear are also business people. They delivered a featured filled product for 299.00 and now people basically want it to have 99% of the functionality of one of their other products they have at another price point. Why would they do that? Is their goal to make the AA3 obsolete. If you want presets to be able to be saved, Get the AA3. If the AA3 is too much money, or too big, or not the right form function for you, then the trade of is, the AFB. You pay less money and you get a few less capabilities.
    "well there are other products that have that feature that are 50.00 less". Well then buy that product. Maybe the Atomic guys spend more of their R&D time on tone instead of making a swiss army knife that sounds like ass.
     
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  3. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Member

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    The reference to 2018 was that this is a new year for you to do something better with your life than come to a place you don't like, to complain about the things you don't like, to people who you think are, "whiny". Why?

    On the other hand, WE are discussing something that is important to US. This discussion may actually be fruitful for us as it may result in updates to the AFB. I am not sure how your comments will result in any value coming back to you.

    Your premise, "and now people basically want it to have 99% of the functionality of one of their other products" is false. From what I gather the conversation is mostly around saving knob values on presets. There is no R&D needed because we know that the AFB can already save knob values in A/B mode AND we know it can load knob values in any mode if its a preset from the AA3 or A12. WE even talked about how adding this wouldn't cannibalize their other products.
     
  4. dhdfoster

    dhdfoster Silver Supporting Member

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    Wouldn’t saving knob changes just be a tweak in the software? It’s not really adding a “feature” in the physical sense. In the modeling world, software tweaks and updates are common place, aren’t they? I don’t even own any Atomic products, but as an observer, asking for the knob settings to be saved for preset transfers hardly seems like whining to me.
     
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  5. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    I think this thread has been marked by a genuine enthusiasm for the product with people offering advice and experience. Not everyone is using the device in the same way and for some there are minor changes to the way presets are saved and loaded that would enhance their experience. I don’t read it as carping or whining. I read it as constructive comment. Whether Atomic elects to act on it is up to them. I think if there is any incivility, it is yours.
     
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  6. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Exactly. And not even of the software the unit is using but the editor only. The unit already does everything required.
     
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  7. TelePrankster

    TelePrankster Member

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    Yeah, you're right. :)
     
  8. Darl

    Darl Supporting Member

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    This is the Gear Page, we talk about gear, we praise gear, we criticize gear, we focus on new products, we always have mixed reactions, we know manufacturers read our posts. I agree that everything in this thread is totally appropriate, not overly complaining, extremely beneficial to Atomic, and also helpful to competitors like Line6 who will think "ah lets make sure it has this feature when we introduce our Baby Helix. This is a forum to discuss gear. If someone thinks a thing should have or shouldn't have a feature then that's a perfectly acceptable discussion point. What's not ok, is when it gets personal between forum members and people start attacking each other for their view - which hasn't happened in this thread at all, which is awesome.
     
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  9. LeicaBossNJ

    LeicaBossNJ Silver Supporting Member

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    Truth bombs right here.
     
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  10. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    Discussing gear and ways it can be improved is always good. Buying a piece of gear expecting it to be one thing only to find out it's another can be frustrating. I did that with EZ-Drummer (which is really stupid because I probably could have done more research before dropping the money). At least with hardware you can sell it and move on.

    On the "saving knob values" front, has anybody tested when importing an AA3/12 preset how long the values remain associated with the present instead of knobs? I know turning a knob acts to wiggle/wake, but what about after a power cycle? Or going from preset mode to channel mode? While discussing gear and how it can be improved is great, it's also really good to recognize when you are just trying to cram a square peg into a round hole.
     
  11. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Member

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    After the import of the A12 presets in A/B mode the knob values stay until you move the knobs (while the pedal is on), even through a power cycle. I'll have to test the other mode.
     
  12. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    Yeah, the other mode is the important one and my hunch is - power cycle sets everything back to WYSIWYG.
     
  13. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    I stand to be corrected but believe that changes to values associated with knobs on the AA3 are only in effect while the preset is active. (There is a blinking red light that alerts you if a value has been changed.) If you have moved the knobs and switch to another preset you will be asked whether you want to save it or discard it. That is unless you are in A/B mode in which case the changes are just discarded. Unless you save the preset the old values will be in effect for the preset. The same applies after a power cycle.

    A comment about knob saving on the AFB. I have always thought it to be akin to auto-save. That said, I don’t think it would have any bearing on saving and loading those values for a preset. The firmware knows the state of the knobs. If the setting and retrieval of values on the device is done via memory mapping then any changes needed could be done in the editor. On the other hand if getters and setters are used then the firmware would have to be updated to provide support for saving and loading knob values.

    One other thing about saving/loading knob values for the AFB. It strikes me that it would be most practical when using the device in A/B mode and never moving the knobs. I say this because unless you have recorded the knob positions you don’t have a frame of reference. On the AA3 when you move a knob the display indicates the deviation from the preset value - in other words, you know where you are. The other use, which I took to be the original scenario, is to be able to restore the device to a known state.
     
  14. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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  15. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    Well I think we are both 'supposing' here :) You say, and it’s a valid supposition, that it’s not really "autosaving" because there seems to be no place to autosave the value on the hardware for presets.

    I am supposing that the firmware knows about the state of the knobs. My reasoning is that both the AA3 and AA12 know about the state of the knobs. And I surmise that the AFB is not based on a radically different architecture - circumscribed but not radically different. In my experience you want to try and get the maximum reuse out of your software.

    So, yes, it is conjecture on my part. And as used to be said, 'only the Shadow knows' or in this instance, Atomic.
     
  16. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    Yes, the AFB editor knows the state of the knobs. But that's not terribly helpful. If a value for the knobs can't be saved with a preset ON THE HARDWARE then having the knob values save on export in AFB seems pretty pointless to me - "oh, goodie, I can import a preset including knob values, as long as I don't ever unplug the unit again that's great. So I guess I take a laptop to the gig and import all my presets before the gig.". While I'm supposing, my suppositions are also based on the knowledge that the product required a HARDWARE revision to allow channel mode.
     
  17. DeSelby

    DeSelby Member

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    I'm not sure I follow. If I can load a preset and all of the state information associated with the preset except for knob values can be preserved across power cycles why is it a huge stretch to have the knob state preserved as well. The issue I think is how the state would be preserved. And here I think I better understand why you find my autosave analogy off the mark.

    On the AA3 I can save all of the state on the hardware using the hardware, or I can use the editor to do the same thing - I use the editor because it’s just easier that way. With the AFB I believe you have to use the editor to adjust any parameter other than a value controlled by a knob. So my question would be, why not allow the values for the knobs to be set in the editor as well.

    There is a tacit assumption on my part in all of this. That is that there is sufficient memory on the device to hold the knob state.
     
  18. dragonfly66

    dragonfly66 Member

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    I confirmed that ByPass mode does NOT keep the knob values of an imported A12 preset after a power cycle.
    1. AFB in ByPass mode
    2. Imported A12 preset. Editor shows the knob values change to the imported preset.
    3. Unplugged AFB.
    4. Moved knobs.
    5. Turned on AFB.
    6. Knobs in editor show the same locations on the AFB, NOT the original knobs.
    As a software developer, it makes sense to me to reuse code where possible, especially at the object level where you have three products doing much of the same thing and holding much of the same data. What I'm hoping for is the perfect solution that was mentioned before which is to have a global setting that turns off or on the ability for the AFB to "auto-save" knobs values on the pedal and the ability to save knob values on export if that global setting is turned on.

    I'm believing everything we ask for is possible until Atomic says it isn't or says they'll never do it. I'm assuming both the editor and the AFB would need to be updated. There would need to be enough space on the AFB to handle the new code and to handle the saving of the knob values for all 9 presets.

    My desire to have the knob values on export from the AFB comes from me using the A/B mode where the knob values are saved on the device (even after a power cycle) as opposed to ByPass mode where they are not. I agree with you @Watt McCo, the scenario you described is not a useful one. If for some reason I've come up with the greatest preset of all I'd love to save it... and load it back up, if I somehow ruined the tone by messing with the knobs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  19. tomsy49

    tomsy49 Member

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    Am i correct in saying that in A/B mode, i would use the amp channel and style toggles to select my amp type for channel A (ex. '59 bassman). I would set the bass, mid, treble etc however i want. Say i turn the mids down all the way for a scooped sound. I then hit the bypass button to switch to channel B. Again, i can use the 2 switches to select my channel B amp (BRit 800). I can then adjust the bass mid, etc to the sound i want on channel B. I have the mids up higher on channel B for my drive sound. Now, say i go back to channel A and decide i scooped out the mids too much and want to add some back in. If i adjust the mids knob, does that make all of the knobs active and screw up all my EQ settings previously set or will it just affect the mids? Or not at all? Or do you set up each preset how you want it in Bypass mode, and when you switch to A/B mode, you use any of the 9 preset slots for channel A/b and have to stick to the settings you set up in bypass mode?
     
  20. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

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    You've got it correct. Each knob is independently wiggle-wake in channel mode.
     
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