Avatar 2x12 too boomy!

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telewacker

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2,357
I mentioned this in the Guytron appreciation thread. At least with this amp the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried. Anyone know of a cab that will emphasize mids more and bottom less? I'm guessing something shallower front to back. Hopefully I can find something of a comparable value so I don't have to lose $$. I'm inthe Bay Area and willing to trade with someone if you're interested.
 
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IPlayHamers

Member
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1,223
Originally posted by telewacker
I mentioned this in the Guytron appreciation thread. At least with this amp the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried. Anyone know of a cab that will emphasize mids more and bottom less? I'm guessing something shallower front to back. Hopefully I can find something of a comparable value so I don't have to lose $$. I'm inthe Bay Area and willing to trade with someone if you're interested.
Click to expand...

I've never had the problem you mentioned with my Avatar cabs, but I'm using very forward sounding amps (Marshall, VHT, etc.) I hear the Guytron cabs sound pretty amazing. I'd also check out Dr. Z ZBest. Blockhead cabs are great for more vintage tones.

BTW, what type(s) of music do you play? Guitars?, Efeects, etc? What sound are you going for?

Hope this helps.
 
S

Sudsysul

Member
Messages
363
It has little panache and gets scorned here on occasion, but for Marshall type amps, a good old Marshall 1936 will do exactly what you request - control the bottom better vs. the Avatar. It's the particle board, dampens it down very well IMO. Mine is less efficient and grinds quicker than my Avatar with identical speakers, so if your amp's a 100, this could be a plus too.

They're all over the place and cheap.. just pull the 75T's they come with and stick some V30's and or H30's in there.

The Avatar definitely has a lot of bass, but I confess that I've grown to like the sound quite a bit.
 
T

telewacker

Member
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2,357
Originally posted by IPlayHamers
I've never had the problem you mentioned with my Avatar cabs, but I'm using very forward sounding amps (Marshall, VHT, etc.) I hear the Guytron cabs sound pretty amazing. I'd also check out Dr. Z ZBest. Blockhead cabs are great for more vintage tones.

BTW, what type(s) of music do you play? Guitars?, Efeects, etc? What sound are you going for?

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I play a Tele and my style is blues based. The Guytron tone controls are subtle... I expect with most amps you could roll off sufficient bottom to counteract the problem, but there isn't enough sweep in the Gt100s bass control.

I tried the head with a V30 in a 1x12 and had a much better mix of mids (more) and bass (less), but I'd prefer 2- 12s for better headroom.
 
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IPlayHamers

Member
Messages
1,223
Originally posted by telewacker
I play a Tele and my style is blues based. The Guytron tone controls are subtle... I expect with most amps you could roll off sufficient bottom to counteract the problem, but there isn't enough sweep in the Gt100s bass control.

I tried the head with a V30 in a 1x12 and had a much better mix of mids (more) and bass (less), but I'd prefer 2- 12s for better headroom.
Click to expand...

This may sound crazy, but I'd try a Blue and a greenback in your 212. The Blue would take care of the mids and make that Tele sound really creamy, with more chime. The Greenback would handle upper mids. You'd have to watch your voilume though so you don't blow the speakers.

Another alternative would be to go with a Greenback and a Weber Blue Dog if you needed more power handling.

Also, concider trying some Jensens. Since you play blues, they might be the ticket.
 
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telewacker

Member
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2,357
Originally posted by IPlayHamers
This may sound crazy, but I'd try a Blue and a greenback in your 212. The Blue would take care of the mids and make that Tele sound really creamy, with more chime. The Greenback would handle upper mids. You'd have to watch your voilume though so you don't blow the speakers.

Another alternative would be to go with a Greenback and a Weber Blue Dog if you needed more power handling.

Also, concider trying some Jensens. Since you play blues, they might be the ticket.
Click to expand...

I've used a Red fang + G12h30, 2 Weber p12ns, and a V30+G12h30. The last combination sounded the best of the three, but a single V30 in a Deluxe cab sounded the most balanced, that's why I think I need a different 2x12 cab.

The amp already compresses a lot, so the Alnicos didn't work out, although I love them in my vintage Fender amps.
 
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johnc

Member
Messages
562
I'm thinking that you need to get the smallest, narrowest, open-back 2-12 cabinet that you can find to approach the sound of a 1-12 DR. When I say narrow, I mean "not deep" from front to back. I've found the deeper the cabinet the more bass it has.

I think if I were you I'd contact Bob Burt.
 
T

telewacker

Member
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2,357
Originally posted by johnc
I'm thinking that you need to get the smallest, narrowest, open-back 2-12 cabinet that you can find to approach the sound of a 1-12 DR. When I say narrow, I mean "not deep" from front to back. I've found the deeper the cabinet the more bass it has.

I think if I were you I'd contact Bob Burt.
Click to expand...


Not to suggest that the 1x12 Deluxe cab is the ultimate sound for this amp, just that it was free of the over emphasized low frequencies. But yes, I'm thinking along the lines of a smaller volume cab, or maybe two 1x12s.

I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful advice. I think the Avatar, good a cab as it is, just would work better with a different amp.
 
F

fullerplast

Senior Member
Messages
6,781
I heard an Avatar 2x12 cab for the first time at the tonefest this past weekend. It had a pair of Greenbacks and was hooked up to a GDS 18W clone. The match was extremely good IMHO, one of the best 18W's I've heard. No boominess, just well balanced.

One difference was that the owner back mounted the speakers, instead of the normal front mounting that Avatar does stock. I don't know if that would have much of an effect on boominess (actually I doubt it), but you may want to try it.

Your experience is probably just a case of the amp EQ, cabinet EQ, and speaker EQ's all just being too reinforced in the low end, rather than complementary. I suspect you still may be able to find speakers that work for you (you've only scratched the surface of possibilities), but certainly another cabinet could also do the trick. You could also try a closed back on the Avatar to reduce the boominess and tighten it up.
 
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Matt Gordon

Senior Member
Messages
947
All 2X12's sound funny in the midrange to me, compared to a 4X12 that is. They're are either boxy, or unclear in the mids. I have to do a huge EQ adjustment from a 4X12 to a 2X12. After the EQing, everything is cool. Might try twisting those knobs a little more! :D
 
H

HeeHaw

Senior Member
Messages
4,964
I rear mounted my speakers in my avatar and cannot tell too much of a difference difference. It's an open back cab anyways, so that may have something to do with it.
 
gkelm

gkelm

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,904
Originally posted by telewacker
I mentioned this in the Guytron appreciation thread. At least with this amp the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried. Anyone know of a cab that will emphasize mids more and bottom less? I'm guessing something shallower front to back. Hopefully I can find something of a comparable value so I don't have to lose $$. I'm inthe Bay Area and willing to trade with someone if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Really like my Avy. Is yours open or closed back? I'd think the open might be boomier, so maybe close it up?
Greg
 
cr8z4life

cr8z4life

Silver Supporting Member
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3,783
I honestly think what you are reacting to is the open back, which is what most Avatars are.....I have one open back Avatar and I am going to order a closed back from them.......I like the open back with v12 's for a cleaner chimey tone and the closed back with g12h30 and v30 for classic rock tighter tones
 
Tom CT

Tom CT

Old Supporting Member
Messages
17,898
Originally posted by telewacker
the Avatar is too boomy and unbalanced with mid frequencies, no matter what speakers I've tried.
Click to expand...

Move the cabinet away from the wall. I'm serious - if it's in a "music room", that can be the culprit right there.
 
6AM

6AM

Member
Messages
1,995
I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it yet, but to make a close backed cab (assuming that's what it is) less boomy the easiest thing to do is to insulate it.

Get a piece of insulation or cotton batting and glue it to the back (and if you’re still not happy, the sides).
 
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telewacker

Member
Messages
2,357
There ain't no more knob to twist! The bass is rolled all the way down. As I mentioned the tone controls on this amp have a very small range of amplitude compared to any other amp I'm familiar with.

I believe it is a combination of the voicing of the amp's eq and the resonant peak of the cab. There's a huge peak at low C on the neck pup.

Interesting comment about 2x12 relative to 4x12....too bad a 4x12 won't fit in my trunk, LOL!

I know I've just scratched the surface with drivers, but I play for a living and buying equipment is expensive! I can't afford to spend any more $$ right now. The amp does sound really good with a single V30, so if need be I'll just parlay the Avatar into a couple of 1x12s.

I just got an offer to swap the Celes for a pair of Emi Stonehenges. Anyone know what these speaker's characteristics are?
 
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