Axe FX/Kemper Multi timbre sound questions

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by claytushaywood, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. claytushaywood

    claytushaywood Member

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    Okay I'm a noob with this stuff and am just starting to have my curiosity piqued. For me one thing I've always wanted to be able to do live is to recreate those huge crushing multi track guitar parts. The ones where you would record the same guitar part with different guitars, amps, slight eq changes etc. Thinking Smashing Pumpkins, My Bloody valentine... The Wall of distortion sound.

    Is this something that these upper end modellers can do? I know guitar rig could do it with splitters and whatnot, but that sauce is weak. I'm talking convincing multi amp sounds- something that would make billy corgans more prone to play live ya know? Or any sort of this type of capability. Maybe being a able to run the signal into a splitter that uses say- stereo signal with two amps and 2 speaker cabinets per amp, or 2 pre- amp equalizer settings per side (giving 4 eq's) into two amps?

    I am a big fan of playing in stereo with different amps set to sound somewhatttt similar. The stereo spread just adds so much to the impact of a sound. These units have proven their individual amp capabilites flat out, is this kinda power a thing to hope for in the future?
     
  2. Scott Whigham

    Scott Whigham Member

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    Good question. I had a chance to play with the Kemper this week for several hours. It has stereo out but a mono guitar signal. We were guessing the stereo out was really so you could route delays/reverbs/chorus effects around. So can you do a stereo out with one modeling/profiling unit? Yes. But that's not what you want as I understand it - you want two modeling units. Yes, that would work - split the signal from the guitar and then bam. It's going to be crazy expensive - the KPA is $1850 and the Axe FX II is $2200 - but it will work. Don't forget the cost of the amps and monitors if needed.
     
  3. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    A huge part of the "layered guitars" effect is the discrepancies between the parts that are doubled, as they were played differently each time. This is more a factor than the use of different amps/guitars/etc.

    You can sort of simulate that with modulation effects, but it's never really all that convincing.
     
  4. claytushaywood

    claytushaywood Member

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    I disagree- I mean a fully wet slight delay on one signal so that its slightly behind the other is a good trick for making things sound huge- and something I use all the time. But two different tonalities- different fuzzes- different amps- whatever, sounds huge- especially when its gig loud even more so when it's mic'd and eq'd a little differently too.

    I cant believe these things dont have that ability.... for that price. I mean nuances and great sounds are great- but not having the power to run two amps.

    I assume you can run huge parallel setups though right? ****, you can even run stereo with an old fender two channel amp and an external power amp. with some mods of course- but all it is, is putting reverb on both channels for phase- preamp tapping one channel with an external power amp and using the internal power amp for the other- or you could even preamp both out to a stereo power amp- hot rod the normal channel with different internal components and run the power amp to seperate cabs- you got yourself a serious stereo rig. You dont even need an old fender amp- just dual channel preamp.

    What about dual routing with the axe fx... like can you run one out without amp or cab modeling but with the effects- into a combo amp or something and have another out for the board?

    I do love running crazy parallel fx routes and switching effect order around a lot- and it would be cool to be able to control after cabinet delays with ease on stage. Thinking about this stuff last night had me ready to pick one up today... but I'm gonna need a little bit more for that much money.

    What's my outlook for the next version?
     
  5. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    You can run dual amp paths with the AxeFX (probably run better with the AxeFX II) and route them as you see fit. For recording you can also reamp right within the box printing a dry guitar signal but monitoring the entire signal chain(s) while recording. This way you are not committing to anything "on tape" and you can reamp to your hearts content.
     
  6. claytushaywood

    claytushaywood Member

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    When I reamp I always save a dry copy of the track! Try that... given that much- I assume I can also reamp dual amps L&R?

    Back to live sound- so two completely different amps with huge fx chainssplit from the beginning say 4 series fx and 3 parallels on each side. Different amps and cabs on each side? Different post cab eq delay and reverb on each side? Are they mixable: ie both amps come out of both sides?

    How does it sound? I'm sure it takes some time dialing it in... but does this amount of CPU usage throw off the quality of the processed sounds?

    Another question- Say I have the cab I want for every amp (of course I dont) but Let's just say I have no desire to use the cab sims. Are the cab sims nescessary to getting good sounds out of these units? Along with full range monitors? Or can you get good sounds just using the amp sims dialed into your own cabinet? Or is it like a vintage utah fender cab sim just will not sound good with a triple recto?

    Basically- are they hand in hand- or is it effective using a regular guitar cab?
    I'm actually also interested in some stranger stuff as well- The company Strymon formally known as damage Control. They do these awesome demos of their octave crystal delays by running the guitar into the damage control tube preamps that have (i believe) an output with a hi end roll off (ie cab sim) that signal goes into the strymon delay with the octaves going up into the upper frequency range- then they record that direct... think about this- the dry guitar signal is rolled off, but the delayed sound is allowed to go into territory that a guitar cab would never allow. this makes absolutely etheral guitar sounds. and is something I'd love to accomplish in a live setting. i'm thinking the axe fx could pull it off

    So... say i'm using cab sims and full range speakers. and i route a fully wet delay with a pitch shifter after it in parallel to another shorter delay...yada yada... pitch shifter delays- can you run those FX and parallel routes AFTER the amp and cab sim?
     
  7. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Come to the digital forum (and the Fractal Audio forum). All of your questions will be answered.
    RE: Processor - the AxeFX II is the king, if it can't do it than it can't be done yet (in the modeling world). There would be no degradation in tones if the CPU limit was reached, it would simply "over" if you ran out of CPU and would not let you add any more FX.
    RE: Cabs - yes, many people go FOH with the first set of main outputs (can be stereo) with cab sims ON, then go power amp + traditional guitar cabinet (can be stereo) with cab sims off BUT STILL INCLUDING POST FX.
    RE: Strymon - many people have compared AxeFX II FX quality with Strymon (for stomp level) and Eventide for studio level...
    I am not an FX junky, but apparently there will be things you can do with the AxeFX II that simply cannot be done AND controlled via midi/footswitch in the analog world.
    Seriously, visit these other threads/forums. :hiP
    If it's good enough for Dweezil Zappa it's a least worth a look from you.
     

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