Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by benifin, Jan 1, 2018.
It's Luigi Modelario the amp modeling expert who has $241,987.34 headphones he uses to judge the slightest nuances of the amp modelers.
you dont have idea who that guy is!!
Nice job @benifin - like most comparisons I find parts of each one I liked better. I'd love to hear the same comparison clips with the gain levels cut in half!!
Prefer the AxeFX clips in both (amp) cases, but they are close.
To the OP what about the feel or perceived feel when playing the patches / units? Any differences you can talk to?
I’d love to hear a recording of yours someday that utilizes your Fractal Audio Device that highlights this difference sometime. As you have lots of recording experience I imagine you must have some samples lying around that you could share.
I think great results can be had with any of the modern modeling platforms.
Though if the mood for tubes ever strikes I go with tubes.
What are you listening on to discern 30-70Hz?!?
I don't think any of the clips sound good the way they are dialed in &/or the IRs used
Honestly, couldn’t you eliminate any difference between the two with an EQ block? It’s not like these tones are carved in stone. It seems kind of weird to compare them as if each patch spoke to the respective strengths of each modeler. The strengths are in the DSP(s). Everything else is fluid and changeable in firmware and programming, right?
I've EQ matched clips from both sample sets, however to my ears there remain some subtle discrepancies when listening critically.
Two modelers can use the exact same DSP, however the quality of the modeling is dependent on the algorithms, and those are proprietary.
Thanks for the comparison, I like the fractal better in this one, sounds as if the Helix has its highcut a little lower.
Whewww .... where does one begin ... some short comments / responses
-> in the room through my CLR at gig level, there was zero difference in terms of "feel" / "vibe" / "tubey-goodness" ..... however you want to describe it
-> my playing [live] is %80 Rythmn / %20 Lead .... so most of my time is spent below the 7th fret ... hence the open chording / barring
-> Ive done this sort of Axe/Helix A/B 4 or 5 times in the last while or so .... as I want to be as transparent as possible, I always say which is which ... not trying to "trick" anyone ...but yes, knowing which is which [seems to] automatically bring forward ones confimration bias
-> one persons "harmonic content" is another persons "harsh upper mids / highs" ... this isnt a criticism .... just reality as we all hear things differnetly
-> both were recorded from their SPDIF's into my RME UCX ... Axe at 48k ... Helix at 44k .... and to my ears .... through my NS10's, ATH-M70x's and CLR - all monitored quiet and loud .... the only real key differneces [as a few of you have already noted] were how they each seem to handle the "mid-er" range freq's .... a bit of "gain" differences ... and some very minor higher end diff's ... however ... 5 sec of eq [by ear] and they become [in the room] essentially indistinguishable ..... I actually did do a "quick and dirty eq" to each clip and was going to post 4 sets of clips ... but that kind of would have defeated the point of the exercise .... honeslty, some of you guys must have some golden ears and golden playback / monitoring rigs
-> reason I did same amp / settings / cabs etc.... is because both Fractal and Line 6 "claim" they are the most accurate .... so given how close the results are, there are only 2 real possibilities ..... either they are both pretty-much-bang-on -or- they arent ...... my money is on the former
-> I am not backward in coming forward about specific comments about the sonic quailty of the Axe and Helix ... but I always try to back it up with [as objective as possible] evidence ie: clips
-> opinions and personal preferences are what its all about ..... but every time I run them head-to-head like this, there is no real daylight between them ..... either way .... the diff's either way are miniscule ... and "fixable" in seconds ....
-> had I mixed the clips around and only said these clips are of an Axe or a Helix .... does anyone honestly think they would have been able to say which each clip definelty was ...... sure, with some EQ analysis you could determine which "group" of clips were which ..... but which modeller was which ???? ..... Ive got the actual SPDIF originals and flicking back and forward, even I was getting confused ..... click to the Axe ... that sounds great ... click to the Helix ... that sounds great .....etc.....
There's no point, simply because if one can't hear the obvious detail differences in the OP's file, then listening to other files with similar differences will mean absolutely nothing to them. There's also the "feel" factor, which needs to be experienced first hand as well.
Aside from that, I typically use my various tube preamps when recording along with the WOS plugin from Two Notes so I don't have a lot of modeled tones laying around, though I am using the Axe FX Ultra along with the Torpedo CAB a lot more these days simply because it sounds decent and weighs less LOL (typically DI'd with IR's, and stage monitored via a 4 X 12 as I'm old school and like to have the guitar in the amp's sound field).
Last, my Helix Native install timed out so I no longer have a Helix to do any comparisons.
You're right though in that any of these things including the $100 ZOOM modelers can make usable guitar tones (especially with quality IR's).
So then it wasnt YOU who made the decision it was your italian friend
I think they sound quite similar NOT identical but that has to do with what you listening on
On cheap monitors i bet they sound very similar on high end studio monitors maybe not so similar
And if you didnt KNOW which was which and was listening on your cellphone i guess you would have trouble picking out the Fractal
That is always the case whit those tests where the tester reveal the answer to the listerner
I like BLIND tests better especially since i can read all fanboys excuses afterwards
They had a headache or stomach ache, or was thinking about something else or they just choose wrong when theyt clicked they REALLY meant to click on the gear they like better
And NOW when they do the listening again they can REALLY hear how much better it sounds but still they choosed the other one in the blind test wonder why?.
I have seen so much of those comments on pro studio audio forums where people have prefered the sound of Behringer/Art and even homebuilt crap preamps over very expensive gear
Than when they found out they had choosed those crappy sounding gadgets they had so funny excuses i really dont know what it is with those people as they TEND to choose the wrong gadget every time in those blindtests.
Next time dont say which is which plz as NOW the ones who like Fractal say Fractal sound so much better and thye ones who Like Helix say Helix is better and if they dont sound similiar atleast it is so much easyer to use
Oh and even if you use the same setting which is what i concider the best way to do a fair A/B test we have to concider that NO real amps of the same model sound the same
So unless they model the exact same amp it will always sounds a little different between Fractal/Helix/Headrush/Atomic when you compare the same amp they say they model.
To my ears, Helix sounds more like an real raw amp and the Fractal has a bit of "polish" in the tone which is not a bad thing ... both are very good tones with clarity, crunch and attack ... in a live mix, don't think many people could tell the difference not only between any of the 12 clips ...
All the clips sound as if very professional guitar gear was used.
Based solely on the provided clips I prefer the AxeFX but after have owned both I can say from my experience each one is very capabale of giving you very usable tones for the right situation.
I always thought it would be fun to make clips like this and mislabel them and just sit back and watch the world burn...