Axess BS2 users - a few Q's please...

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by erksin, Oct 1, 2005.


  1. erksin

    erksin Member

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    1 - Where in your signal chain do you place your BS2?

    2 - Is it okay to use it last, or do you lose some of the benefit of the buffer that way?

    3 - If you don't use it last in the chain, how do you split your signal to two amps and still have the effects go to both amps?

    4 - Would you recommend it?

    Thanks in advance!

    Mike
     
  2. devbro

    devbro Member

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    1. Ideally, it should be first in the chain right after your guitar. However, certain wah pedals don't respond favorably to a buffered signal so in this case, put it after the wha.

    2. You can use it last but you lose the benefit of a low impedence signal through your pedalboard. If you have an extremely long cable from your board to your amp, you need a buffer. Allot depends on what effects are on your board. Many effects have built in buffers. Put it where it sounds best.

    3. You cant

    4. Highly recommended. Probably the most transparent buffer available and Mario is an exceptional guy to do business with. In fact, you can ask him these questions and get it straight from the horses mouth:horse
     
  3. erksin

    erksin Member

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    Thanks for your reply, devbro!

    A few more if you don't mind...

    What is the benefit of a low impedance signal?

    I'm running 5-6 true-bypass pedals with George L's on the board and about 10' of it to the amps (I'm currently using a DLS Chorus~Vibe in stereo to two amps) - not a huge amount of cable/effects, but enough to make a noticeable loss of high-end - does the low impedance permit easier passage of the higher frequencies?

    Thanks again,

    Mike
     
  4. devbro

    devbro Member

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    Hi Mike,
    There's really no magic to low impedence. It's just as simple as it sounds. Electric current travels greater distances with less signal loss in a low impedence as opposed to high impedence environment. So to answer your question, yes there is less high end loss with low impedence.

    1. Do you notice a loss of highs when all pedals are bypassed? or 2. Are you experiencing loss when certain pedals are engaged?

    These are 2 very different problems that require careful consideration. Of course, you could always just go buy a BS2. You could always sell for what you paid in a matter of minutes on this board.

    :D
     
  5. erksin

    erksin Member

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    It's definitely when all pedals are by-passed...

    Thanks again for your help, D - I'll be picking up a BS2 in the very near future!

    Mike
     
  6. devbro

    devbro Member

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    You may also want to look at the cords you're running from your guitar to the board and from the board to the amp. Low quality cables will suck the highs right out of your tone. Also, be aware that not all true bypass implementations are the same. Many effect builders have their own "flavor" and some are better than others. In other words what you think is "true bypass" may really not be.

    I was able to eliminate my buffer and retain highs doing the following:

    1. Switched to Mogami 2524 for guitar to board and board to amp. Kept them as short as possible. 10 foot to board and 15 to amp. I hear Canare is also a very good low capacitance cable.

    2. Bought a Loooper and put all my effects through it. No more "true bypass" interpretations. My effects are on all the time and I simply bring them into the loop as desired.

    3. Used George L's on the board and arranged the pedals to create the shortest lengths possible.

    Good luck...........
     
  7. erksin

    erksin Member

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    I use a good quality DiMarzio 10' cable from guitar to board, as short as possible George L's on the board, and 10' George L's to the amps. I guess I could go the Looper route too (would certainly be cheaper) - are there any additional benefits to using a buffer over just looping your pedals?
     
  8. devbro

    devbro Member

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    Hmmm,
    A buffer is designed to overcome capicitance typically caused by long cable runs or inferior effects. If you eliminate as much capacitance as possible and you're happy with the highs your getting, it renders the need for a buffer pointless - no? Remember a buffer is not a musical effect, it's a fix for a problem.

    Looping your pedals will eliminate cumulative cable capacitiance because the signal isn't going to any effects that are not engaged. Less cable equals less capacitance - less capacitance equals more highs. Even if you decide to get a buffer, having your pedals looped will only make it better.

    IMHO, I'd dump the DiMarzio cable. GC sells premade Mogami 2524 (you have to look at the cable to verify 2524) that you can try and return if you don't like it. Even if you do like it, you can still return it and roll your own dirt cheap. There are several suppliers of 2524 and many Switchcraft jack suppliers.

    At the end of the day, your rig should sound the same running through your board with no effects turned on as it does plugging your guitar straight into your amp - or darn close.
     
  9. erksin

    erksin Member

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    Interesting...

    I guess I should start with the cable and determine if that's the culprit first, then proceed if that doesn't do it.

    I'm pretty sure that the pedals I'm using have quality bypasses (Fulltone Clyde, Tonefactor Hellbilly, MI Audio Blue Boy, Timmy, DLS Chorus-Vibe, Peterson StroboStomp), the only thing left in the chain to check would be that DiMarzio cable. If I were to total up all of the cable footage used, it would certainly be less than 25' probably more like 21' altogether (and 11' of that would be George L's). I'll check into that Mogami...
     
  10. Matt Gordon

    Matt Gordon Senior Member

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    THe Mogami has a capacatance of 120pF/M, a little higher cap than most. Tony's (EA) cable is about 90pF/M, and the GL is closer to upper 70's/M I believe. I use the Mogami as well. Wouldn't have it any other way, but if capacatance is the issue, I'd stay with the GL. I just don't like the sound of it. The Mogami is much more musical to my ears in a guitar rig. It subtracts just the right amount of stuff to make the guitar sound thick, less ice picky, less brittle, less like a piezo bridge PU. Mario is a good as it gets, no matter what product you buy from him. Eventually I'll upgrade to his foot controller and RX thingy, though it may be a few years.
     
  11. devbro

    devbro Member

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    Matt,
    Per the mfg websites, Mogami is actually lower capacitiance which is probably why we like it so much:D

    Mogami 2524
    130pF/m (39.7pF/Ft)
    Mogami'w Website

    Canare GS-6
    160pF/m (49.0pF/Ft)
    Canare's Website
     
  12. KLB

    KLB Member

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    We liked Hendrix tone too. He was playing through long, coiled cables with high capacitance, but his amp was cranked and the treble/presence may have been dimed.

    Splitting hairs over cable capacitance may not be a very productive way to improve as a guitarist.

    Can you really hear it on the bandstand?

    Peace,
    Ken
     
  13. Matt Gordon

    Matt Gordon Senior Member

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    I can never remember the specifics, but I wasn't aware the Canare was so high. I thought most of that stuff was low cap. I use the L2T2-S in my home studio which sounds much better than the cheap Radio Shack cable I was using, at least the condensors seem more responsive, and the noise floor is much better when those tracks start multiplying. Definitely sold on the Mogami though! ;)
     
  14. Matt Gordon

    Matt Gordon Senior Member

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    Ken, at the volumes most folks play, I can't even hear a jet engine, and one of the reasons I don't get out to see live acts. I couldn't tell the difference between a Les Paul and a Telecaster with some people playing, yet we all know there is a huge difference. Guess it depends on the folks who occupy your bandstand. Nothing beats a Super Reverb and a Gibson ES335 cranked up, no matter the cable.
     
  15. erksin

    erksin Member

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    Well, I can certainly hear it at home - and it bugs me enough to feel the need to do something about it. If it helps my tone and gets me more psyched about playing, I'd consider that an improvement...
     
  16. devbro

    devbro Member

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    I guess until you hear the difference quality cables make, it's hard to understand. I too was disbeliever until I finally tried a good cable and it floored me.

    If you play extremely loud and dynamics are unimportant, you probably won't notice much. Highs will likely get washed out in the crash of cymbals, the other guitar player and/or monitor feedback. And while I love Hendrix, I can't really say he was an articulate, volume conscious, dynamic player. I play allot of clean stuff - probably why I love my Shiva - and loss of highs is intolerable.

    FWIW, Evidence Audio Lyric cable is only 32pF/Ft and $7.12 per foot. Not much better than the Mogami 2524 at $.37 per foot. Not sure if 7pF/Ft is worth the investment
    ;)
     

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