Back to basics: What is goop?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Moe45673, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    I know virtually nothing about "guts". I hear talk thrown around about op-amps and discrete components and such and am usually able to follow the flow of an argument/opinion/etc about different pedals. This talk about "goop" intrigues me, though. All I know about goop is that its use is controversial in the TGP community (controversy is always fun!) and it's used to prevent reverse-engineering.

    Sooooo, what's the low-down?
     
  2. redpill

    redpill Member

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    "Goop" is what we call the potting compounds that some builders use to hide their circuits. It's a plastic (epoxy, really) that is poured on the circuits, then hardens, and obscures the circuits from view. It means that you can't just open up the pedal and look at how it is built, the values of the electronic components, the circuit design, etc.
     
  3. earthtonesaudio

    earthtonesaudio Member

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    It's the last component the builder places on his Tube Screamer clone.
     
  4. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    I beleive this is what Howard Dumble use to do with his amp builds to prevent anyone from copying his ideas.
     
  5. Lolaviola

    Lolaviola Supporting Member

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    It's what is used to cover up the "mojo."

    I had an old Standel amp that was gooped...btw
     
  6. blastastick

    blastastick Senior Member

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    It is used by some builders to hide their stuff, but really just makes it hard to service if there is ever a problem. Hot topic.
     
  7. mobis8

    mobis8 Member

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    It can be used in two ways:

    1: To hide components from an original design to prevent them from being copied.
    2: To hide a clone so people think it is an original design

    The reality is it makes it impossible to service a pedal should a component fail, and renders the pedal unable to be modded (switching out components for different values etc).
     
  8. john b

    john b Member

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    This had me laughing hard!!!!
     
  9. blastastick

    blastastick Senior Member

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    :agree:agree:agree
     
  10. IvIark

    IvIark Member

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    :rotflmao
     
  11. shaneygoo

    shaneygoo Member

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    can we get an official list of pedals that have goop? i think it's only fair to warn consumers when they are buying a pedal that can't be repaired or modified...

    and the only controversy would be coming from vendors (or their supporters), because you can't argue that the goop is good for them, but bad for the customer... i mean if the customer can't fix or mod the pedal, they have to go buy a new one...

    unless of course you want to argue that point and sound stupid and biased...
     
  12. LowWatt

    LowWatt Member

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    A gooped pedal can be repaired or modified. It just takes the initial effort of removing the goop first.
     
  13. Polynitro

    Polynitro Member

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    I dunno about modding but some if not all of these guys will fix the pedal themselves if it breaks.
     
  14. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Member

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    Goop doesn't prevent anything from being cloned, it can be removed.
     
  15. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    so if goop can be removed, why all the hate surrounding it? Sure it's annoying for the guy that wants to quickly have a look at the components, but that isn't the builders problem.
     
  16. redpill

    redpill Member

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    The fact that it can be removed is what makes it such a lame premise in the first place. It isn't protecting the design at all. So why add any inconvenience in terms of repair or modification? Just for one (rather weak) line of defense against duplication? Or in some cases, just to hide the fact that the circuit is identical to or derivative of another?
     
  17. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Member

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    If the "boutique" pedal maker makes a bad solder joint, then I have to degoop the damn thing to fix it. Oh no, wait, I'd rather pay two way shipping plus wait 6 months to 2 years for some boutique maker to fix it for free...

    There is nothing positive about goop. Take the Zendrive and Timmy for instance. The Zen was gooped, the Timmy was not. Both were reverse engineered at about the same time--goop didn't help protect then. The Zen was cloned before the Timmy--really didn't help there, and the Tim series has been out much longer. Now, I have a 2 Timmy's and Zen. I could have cloned either easily. But I have 2 Timmy's and a Zen and love them. If the Zen breaks...maybe I'll build myself a clone, I'm not fixing a gooped pedal, when I can clone it much easier.

    Sarcasm not intended for my fellow forum members, but for the goopers. So silly now. What a waste of time.
     
  18. Unabender

    Unabender Member

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    Well, if you don't count the price tag as a component... You know, the last bit of "mojo" being the high price :)
     
  19. Unabender

    Unabender Member

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    The goop actually makes the pedal's schematic pop earlier on the webz... Because people will be more interested in the way it works, because the pedal is gooped.
     
  20. Angle Loss

    Angle Loss Member

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    absolutely!
     

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