Bad Cat Unleash Question

critter74

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,106
I'm looking to buy an Unleash but before I do I have 1 very specific questions. I think I know the answer already but need to confer with those who know before going headlong into this purchase:

So say I have an amp with an 8 Ohm out. Normally that would go to an 8 Ohm speaker/cab.

Now I use the Unleash. It has an 8 Ohm tap for the Amp Input. So far so good. However, the output (To cab) can do either 4, 8 or 16 Ohm.

Does this mean I could do a a mismatch using the Unleash. Simliar to what the Weber Z-Matcher does?

Essentially I am trying to figure out if I I need to use the Weber Z-Matcher if I have an amp with an 8 Ohm tap but a 16 Ohm cab, or if the Unleash essentially does the sane thing...

Hope this is clear. If not I'll try to reword...

(And just to not, I referring to straight matches. I'm not concerned about a "safe" mis-match. I want to know if the Unleash works similar to the Weber Z-Matcher in this one instance...)
 

JiMB

Member
Messages
3,200
Pretty sure that's what it means.
As long as you're using the 8ohm out of the amp, the cab resistance can be 4, 8 or 16ohm.
 

critter74

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,106
Amps 8Ohm out into the unleash.
Yeah, I know. I stated as much. But, that doesn't answer the question.

8 Ohm Amp out the the Unleash. The Unleash then has a 4, 8, or 16 Ohm out to the cab. Does that mean the Unleash works as the Weber Z-Matcher and matches the Impedance to the cabs...

I could understand, since there is 2 cab taps, its for 2 separate cabs. But then it either needs to state 4/8 or 8/16 depending on if the taps out run serial or parallel...

I would assume so as you normally wouldn't go 8ohm out from amp to a 16 ohm cab (again not counting for the practice of mis-matching, which though generally deemed safe is not usually advised by most amp manufactures, sans a few like Mesa). Otherwise the Unleash would be 8 ohm Amp out to 8 ohm cab in. Why the 4, 8 and 16 ohm?

But I could be missing another use for it.
 

teemuk

Member
Messages
3,264
Does this mean I could do a a mismatch using the Unleash. Simliar to what the Weber Z-Matcher does?
No.

Unleash is a reamp so you are mismatching its solid-state output section.

And this amp lacks any impedance matching scheme like a transformer (Z-Matcher) or variable supply voltages.

Consulting the manual it simply states:

"8 ohms - ideal for best sound
4 and 16 ohm inputs work but with slight tonal differences
compared to an 8 ohm input"

...and...

"OUTPUT POWER
into 4 ohm cabinet - 180 Watts
into 8 ohm cabinet - 100 Watts
into 16 ohm cabinet - 50 Watts"

So it's the usual mismatch thing: speaker load affects output power. Higher loads reduce power, lower ones increase it.

In addition it's also a class-D amp, which means it has LC filters designed to work their best with certain impedance. That's why it has only one ideal setting for load impedance.
 

critter74

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,106
No.

Unleash is a reamp so you are mismatching its solid-state output section.

And this amp lacks any impedance matching scheme like a transformer (Z-Matcher) or variable supply voltages.

Consulting the manual it simply states:

"8 ohms - ideal for best sound
4 and 16 ohm inputs work but with slight tonal differences
compared to an 8 ohm input"

...and...

"OUTPUT POWER
into 4 ohm cabinet - 180 Watts
into 8 ohm cabinet - 100 Watts
into 16 ohm cabinet - 50 Watts"

So it's the usual mismatch thing: speaker load affects output power. Higher loads reduce power, lower ones increase it.

In addition it's also a class-D amp, which means it has LC filters designed to work their best with certain impedance. That's why it has only one ideal setting for load impedance.
Great. This was the answer I was looking for. I was wrong on my first assumption. But this explains it.

Do you have an Unleash? I actually want to use mine as more oif a boost for my smaller 15 watts amps for more headroom, not more grind at lower volumes. How does it work for that? I actually want to use it more as a re-amper I guess than an attenuator, in the classic sense. I want to use my smaller wattage amps for more volume/clean-headroom.

So I guess I will still need to get the Weber Z-Matcher as well for use with my other amps/cabs....
 
Messages
4,676
Great. This was the answer I was looking for. I was wrong on my first assumption. But this explains it.

Do you have an Unleash? I actually want to use mine as more oif a boost for my smaller 15 watts amps for more headroom, not more grind at lower volumes. How does it work for that? I actually want to use it more as a re-amper I guess than an attenuator, in the classic sense. I want to use my smaller wattage amps for more volume/clean-headroom.

So I guess I will still need to get the Weber Z-Matcher as well for use with my other amps/cabs....
What teemuk said is spot on...except for the part about "mismatching the solid state power section". It's solid state, so there's nothing to match. it just makes different amounts of power at different levels of impedance.

If you're looking to make an amp louder, the Unleash does that just as well as making it softer. The thing you will have to watch out for are your speakers. You'll need to play into a cab that can take the output power of the Unleash at the given impedance for the cab (he listed that above). If the amp is a combo, make sure the speakers are up to the job.

The sound is consistent across different volume levels, so you shouldn't have an issue with it.

-Nick
 

the tourist

Member
Messages
3,404
Okay, I'm going to bump this for clarification.

I just bought a Cub III head, it's on its way. I have an Unleash. The Cub III has an 8 ohm output, so I'd use that from the amp to the Unleash. I have a 2x12 cab that has two 8-ohm speakers in it that can either be run 4 ohm or 16 ohm.

Am I correct in assuming I can run the Unleash out to either a 4 ohm or a 16 ohm speaker cabinet without tonal variation?

I also have a second question.

I'm planning to buy a new 2x12 speaker cabinet as well and want to make sure that it could handle the Unleash maxed if I so chose. I'm planning on 2x12 with Celestion Golds. If I get two 8 ohm speakers, should they be wired for 16 ohms or for 4 ohms?

If I'm understanding correctly, if they're wired for 16 ohms, the maximum the Unleash would pump into them is 50 watts, correct?
 
Messages
4,676
Am I correct in assuming I can run the Unleash out to either a 4 ohm or a 16 ohm speaker cabinet without tonal variation?
Technically everything has tonal variation. You will never know the true answer to this question because they will be different speakers. Even if they were the same speakers, you'd get some slight tonal variation from the different wiring (to yield different impedances).

But, theoretically speaking, there should be no tonal variation. I can't say that i've noticed any variation between different impedances (I have 2 Greenback loaded 2x12's, one with 16 ohm speakers, and one with 8 ohm speakers).

To side step your question; as good as the Unleash is, it *does* affect the tone somewhat. You'll hear a slight dulling of the highs, which you can compensate for by turning the treble or presence up a bit. If you're looking for absolutely zero tonal variation from running an attenuator or reamping equipment, i'm afraid you will be looking for a long time.
I'm planning to buy a new 2x12 speaker cabinet as well and want to make sure that it could handle the Unleash maxed if I so chose. I'm planning on 2x12 with Celestion Golds. If I get two 8 ohm speakers, should they be wired for 16 ohms or for 4 ohms?

If I'm understanding correctly, if they're wired for 16 ohms, the maximum the Unleash would pump into them is 50 watts, correct?
Two 8 ohm Celestion golds can be wired in parallel for 4 ohms, or wired in series for 16 ohm. Either way, they will yield 100W power handling.

Unleash into 16 ohm load (golds in series) = 50W (safe)
Unleash into 4 ohm load (golds in parallel) = 180W (NOT safe at full Unleash volume)

You would have to wire the golds in series if you want to be able to crank the Unleash without worry. If they are wired in parallel, you're guessing as to when the output is unsafe.

-Nick
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,593
So, just to clarify, the Unleash is NOT like the Z-match in that it doesn't match the output impedance of the amp to the input of the speaker. It uses a fixed load to absorb the output of the amp at the 8 ohm rating (safe for the amp), then outputs a solid state section that is stable with 4-8-16 ohm speaker cabs. You can operate it safely with any of those, and yes, you can wire a pair of 8 ohm Celestions at either 4 or 16 ohms and be safe. I'd go with 16, so that if you decide to run thru 2 speaker cabs, you can parallel them at 8 ohms, easier to wire than trying to make 2 4 ohm cabs in series for 8 ohms.
 

the tourist

Member
Messages
3,404
Technically everything has tonal variation. You will never know the true answer to this question because they will be different speakers. Even if they were the same speakers, you'd get some slight tonal variation from the different wiring (to yield different impedances).

But, theoretically speaking, there should be no tonal variation. I can't say that i've noticed any variation between different impedances (I have 2 Greenback loaded 2x12's, one with 16 ohm speakers, and one with 8 ohm speakers).

To side step your question; as good as the Unleash is, it *does* affect the tone somewhat. You'll hear a slight dulling of the highs, which you can compensate for by turning the treble or presence up a bit. If you're looking for absolutely zero tonal variation from running an attenuator or reamping equipment, i'm afraid you will be looking for a long time.

Two 8 ohm Celestion golds can be wired in parallel for 4 ohms, or wired in series for 16 ohm. Either way, they will yield 100W power handling.

Unleash into 16 ohm load (golds in series) = 50W (safe)
Unleash into 4 ohm load (golds in parallel) = 180W (NOT safe at full Unleash volume)

You would have to wire the golds in series if you want to be able to crank the Unleash without worry. If they are wired in parallel, you're guessing as to when the output is unsafe.

-Nick

About the first part: Ah, I just attributed the high end loss when attenuating to extra saturation. I could hear that with my last amp, and worked with it. When boosting a 5 watt amp for cleans, though, it was pretty darn transparent IMO. Really I just wanted to make sure I am not going to damage the Cub III OT by running it 8ohms into the Unleash and then the Unleash into a 4 or 16 ohm cab.

About the second part: Thanks - that's what I thought. I just wanted to make sure. I'll probably order an Avatar Multijack just to be safe (and then if I ever want to run it in 8 ohms as a 1x12, I can just use the right speaker input). Glad to know if I run it in series (16 ohms), the Golds will be perfectly safe!

Thanks a ton!
 

the tourist

Member
Messages
3,404
So, just to clarify, the Unleash is NOT like the Z-match in that it doesn't match the output impedance of the amp to the input of the speaker. It uses a fixed load to absorb the output of the amp at the 8 ohm rating (safe for the amp), then outputs a solid state section that is stable with 4-8-16 ohm speaker cabs. You can operate it safely with any of those, and yes, you can wire a pair of 8 ohm Celestions at either 4 or 16 ohms and be safe. I'd go with 16, so that if you decide to run thru 2 speaker cabs, you can parallel them at 8 ohms, easier to wire than trying to make 2 4 ohm cabs in series for 8 ohms.

Thanks also for this. I think I'm going to bookmark this page for reference! Ha ha ha!

Great info, guys!
 

Grrrip

Member
Messages
7
Here's a related question. I have an Unleash, I want to do the wet dry thing like in their video. My amp is set to 8 ohms and goes out to the Unleash. Then, from the Unleash it goes to the external speaker, which is 16 ohms. I'm OK with the 50 watt rating. The internal speaker is also 16 ohms, which I connect directly to the amp.

What load is my amp seeing if it's connected to the Unleash at 8 ohms, and directly to my 16 ohm internal speaker dry? Is it safe? The amp is a Soldano 44 with 2 speaker outs and a knob with 4, 8 and 16 ohm settings. I e-mailed Bad Cat, but got no answer.
 
Messages
4,676
Here's a related question. I have an Unleash, I want to do the wet dry thing like in their video. My amp is set to 8 ohms and goes out to the Unleash. Then, from the Unleash it goes to the external speaker, which is 16 ohms. I'm OK with the 50 watt rating. The internal speaker is also 16 ohms, which I connect directly to the amp.

What load is my amp seeing if it's connected to the Unleash at 8 ohms, and directly to my 16 ohm internal speaker dry? Is it safe? The amp is a Soldano 44 with 2 speaker outs and a knob with 4, 8 and 16 ohm settings. I e-mailed Bad Cat, but got no answer.
Your amp is seeing about 5.3 ohms with that load. Personally, I wouldn't run it. But my advice would be to call Soldano and ask them how forgiving the amp is with mismatch. Some amps are ok with those things, others are more temperamental.

-Nick
 

vibrostrat43

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,264
When using the Unleashed the guitar amp or OT will always see an 8 ohm load. It's the speakers own load that affects the output level of the Unleashed.
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
28,593
5.3 ohms on an 8 ohm tap should be safe in almost any amp at almost any volume. It's the amp itself that you need to be concerned about, not the Unleash.
 
Messages
1,408
I've read for the most natural sound, the Unleash likes to see an 8 ohm speaker cab but...

I have two 8 ohm speakers that I'd like to install in a 2x12 cab.
Should I wire them for 4 ohms or 16 ohms for the best sound with the Unleash?
Which mismatch will not roll off the highs or is safer not to damage the Unleash?
 

1198SP

Member
Messages
603
Randy, give BadCat a call. I called them as my input trim LED is constantly on but the Unleash is working perfectly well. Got to speak to John Thompson as he answered the support line. He was really nice and helped me out.
 




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