Badcat ClassicCat vs. Divided /13 CJ11

[AndreasChestnut]

Hi guys, I need someone's help cause I'm in kind of a delemma.
I am a guitar player in Europe and unfortunately, there aren't many Divided or Badcat dealers... anyway, I managed to find the ClassicCat and the CJ11, the problem is that I can't hear them because the dealer is in another country.So what would you suggest to someone who wants to play blues oriented stuff?
I 've heard some samples of the Classic and it sounds amazing, the divided too...
My only problem is that the Divided may not be as loud as the Classic and thus not deliver in gigs...
Are there any guys with experience on any of these amps??

 

[katuna]

I only have the divided and I have to admit, I have had a hard time with it at gigs. But I think it could work; it depends on the relative volume levels of the other players. It wasn't that I couldn't hear it, I just had to crank it up higher than the level of optimal tone.

I'm moving to a higher wattage amp for gigs from here on out. Don't have any experience with the hot cats.

 

[JES1680]

I have the Classic and have not heard the /13.
The Classic is not that loud either. I had an 18 watt Top Hat Club Royal 2x12 that was louder.
That said, the Classic Cat may be the best Telecaster amp I've ever come across. It has a mild breakup on it's own, but stays fairly clean. Hit it with a boost and it will get nice and crunchy. A very good blues amp.
The one thing that pushed me towards the Classic is that I've heard the CJ11 can get a bit loose in the low end. Not an issue with the Classic.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

first of all I 'd like to thank you for your time and your replies.
to be honest, I 've heard the Classic only from the samples they have posted on their site...
I haven't heard the CJ, but for some reason, after I looked its specs, I think that it would be a bit more quiet than the Classic..
Well, my band is a loud one... especially our drummer... ha ha ha
I have a great ptp JTM and I am looking for a fender-style 1x12" amp
my first choice was the Classic, but the dealer has a great offer for the CJ too, almost at the same price and that's where I got confused and can't decide between the both
One of the facts that I didn't like on the CJ was the use of a master volume and one thing I liked about the Classic, is the use of a very simple EQ section
But could it be too simple???
I mean what variety of clean sounds do you have with a Classic Cat?

 

[mesaspeedlab]

I've owned a classic cat and a CJ11 so I was able to try them both on stage side by side during a practice session one night...I sold the classic cat the very next day. I still own the CJ11. IMHO there is no comparision between the two, night and day difference. The CJ is the best D13 amp I have ever tried or owned myself. The CJ is WAY louder then a classic cat, way more bottom end (not loose, tight and very well defined), 100 times clearer tone and loves pedals. I run the CJ with the master at 3:00 and the volume at noon and I can hear myself on stage no problem...and theres still more volume to go. Theres also the push-pull on the volume that kicks it up a few db, but if you get the volume up around 3:00 or volume at noon with the push-pull engaged you will start to breakup, so im not sure how much clean headroom you need. Volume at noon w/o the push-pull I am still clean (with single coils, dont have a humbucker guitar so I cant comment)

I could never get into the zone with the classic cat, the single tone knob was never enough and the volume was never perfect, always sacrificing one for the other. I ended up trying a lot of different V1 tubes to try and find a balance and ended up on a 5751...this solved a lot of my issues but after hearing the cat and the cj side by side there was no doubt.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

Theres also the push-pull on the volume that kicks it up a few db, but if you get the volume up around 3:00 or volume at noon with the push-pull engaged you will start to breakup, so im not sure how much clean headroom you need.

I could never get into the zone with the classic cat, the single tone knob was never enough and the volume was never perfect, always sacrificing one for the other. I ended up trying a lot of different V1 tubes to try and find a balance and ended up on a 5751...

I am playing in a blues (loud though...) band and I mostly get my sound through a clean amp with the use of pedals. Mostly a '81 TS or a Budda Phatman for the strat and a BSM RM treble booster for the les paul.
I am a supporter of the philosophy that states that "Less is more..."
That's why I want to choose between one of these two amps.
Basic stuff that can deliver...
My only question, is which one of the two can stand better on a live stage and work better for vintage blues oriented sounds...

 

[redtoploader]

I am playing in a blues (loud though...) band and I mostly get my sound through a clean amp with the use of pedals. Mostly a '81 TS or a Budda Phatman for the strat and a BSM RM treble booster for the les paul.
I am a supporter of the philosophy that states that "Less is more..."
That's why I want to choose between one of these two amps.
Basic stuff that can deliver...
My only question, is which one of the two can stand better on a live stage and work better for vintage blues oriented sounds...

What amp do you usually use(for comparison)? If you are used to using a twin or super reverb, the cj will probably be too small.

With the cj11, think fender deluxe, but a little bolder sounding. I found the low end to stay tight as long as you kept the bass down some(like a fender!)...if it's too bright just cut treble, DONT boost bass! Unless you like a more scooped, blackface tone. My fave setting with a tele was both bass/treb between 10-11 oclock, master down maybe a notch or two...use the volume for overdrive. It sounded great with an ac booster, nice tight and smooth.

 

[mesaspeedlab]

I am playing in a blues (loud though...) band and I mostly get my sound through a clean amp with the use of pedals. Mostly a '81 TS or a Budda Phatman for the strat and a BSM RM treble booster for the les paul.
I am a supporter of the philosophy that states that "Less is more..."
That's why I want to choose between one of these two amps.
Basic stuff that can deliver...
My only question, is which one of the two can stand better on a live stage and work better for vintage blues oriented sounds...

If your playing live with a really loud band I'm not sure if the cat will hold up. I was right at the edge of not being loud enough with the cat, although I was still trying to remain somewhat clean...if I bumped up the volume any more it just went into breakup but not much louder. Also everyone's idea of "loud" is somewhat subjective so maybe it will work for you. So if we are talking volume only, the CJ is louder. If you want vintage blues then a strat and a TS will get you there with either amp, although I fell the CJ is clearer and less congested then the cat.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

What amp do you usually use(for comparison)? If you are used to using a twin or super reverb, the cj will probably be too small.

Hi, and thank you for your help
I play an original 60's jtm45 mostly with my strat, with 2 inputs linked and my guitar plugged in the normal channel. I mostly use a '81 TS a budda phatman and maybe a xotic AC...
I must admit that I only once I raised the volume around 11 0'clock at the normal channel and the treble input was around 8-9 o'clock...
So I am looking for an amp that I could crank in some small club gigs, but without letting me down for lacking volume...
But as I said, I mostly get overdrive sounds through pedals.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

If your playing live with a really loud band I'm not sure if the cat will hold up.
So if we are talking volume only, the CJ is louder. If you want vintage blues then a strat and a TS will get you there with either amp, although I fell the CJ is clearer and less congested then the cat.

Hello mesaspeedlab, thank you for your time,
I am looking for vintage style sounds in general...
I was really going for the Cat, but the dealer told me that has one last CJ11 and can give it for about the same price of the Cat (1250euros for the Classic and 1350euros for the CJ11)
and that's when it hit me that maybe I should consider getting the CJ too...
Excuse me but I am from a non english speaking country and I didn't understood one phrase,
what did you mean by "congested" ?

 

[mesaspeedlab]

Congested...like traffic on the road, the cars are still moving but not as smooth or as fast as they could be bad cats have this great mid range growl, its what makes them cut through in the mix, and the classic cat has that but it gets congested doing it. Some people like that tone but compaired to the CJ11 it just didnt sound as good.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

So, you mean that it is maybe a bit "slower" than the Classic Cat?
From the sanples on the badcat site, I got the impression that the Classic is a bit too treble sounding than the CJ...
And as for the volume, you said it's loud, you mean loud enough for, let's say a 100 persons club with a drummer described as a powerhorse??
Yeah, he's a loud mean one...
To conclude, I don't need an ampa for big stages, I have one and it works amazing.
I need a small, low wattage amp that will deliver in small clubs, 50-100 persons, that won't let me down because of low volume...
And of course another reason I want an amp like the one I described, is to quit carying the jtm and its 2x12" cab.
First, because they are heavy and it's a 60's model and I feel that it gets "abused" from carrying it here and there every now and then, especially for the small clubs which are more often than big stages...
Both great amps , great value for money and I just wish I had the budget to afford both... ha ha ha

 

[redtoploader]

Okay...so you use the jtm45 for the bigger stages? I think the CJ would work great for the smaller gigs. Especially with a strat.

Like I said, expect deluxe type tones but it can get pretty marshally too with the boost switch. Great little amp.

 

[AndreasChestnut]

Okay...so you use the jtm45 for the bigger stages? I think the CJ would work great for the smaller gigs. Especially with a strat.

Like I said, expect deluxe type tones but it can get pretty marshally too with the boost switch. Great little amp.

Yes, I use it for big stages and I'm looking for a small/low wattage one for small gigs...
Like I said, I mostly work with pedals, boosters and stuff...
by the way, do you know where I could get some samples for the CJ?
I found samples for the other /13 models, but not even one for the CJ.Also no reviews for that model on harmony-central or similar sites/forums...

 

[mesaspeedlab]

So, you mean that it is maybe a bit "slower" than the Classic Cat?
From the sanples on the badcat site, I got the impression that the Classic is a bit too treble sounding than the CJ...
And as for the volume, you said it's loud, you mean loud enough for, let's say a 100 persons club with a drummer described as a powerhorse??
Yeah, he's a loud mean one...
To conclude, I don't need an ampa for big stages, I have one and it works amazing.
I need a small, low wattage amp that will deliver in small clubs, 50-100 persons, that won't let me down because of low volume...
And of course another reason I want an amp like the one I described, is to quit carying the jtm and its 2x12" cab.
First, because they are heavy and it's a 60's model and I feel that it gets "abused" from carrying it here and there every now and then, especially for the small clubs which are more often than big stages...
Both great amps , great value for money and I just wish I had the budget to afford both... ha ha ha

Congested in tone, the bad cat has this great midrange quality but its thicker and not as clear or as well defined as the CJ11. I didnt find the classic cat too bright unless the tone knob was reaching the 3:00 range. Also I've found most of the D13 amps to be too bright but the CJ is not, it has a great balance and an amazing amount of low end from that combo cab.

I hate to say "yes" or "no" to how the CJ will hold up in your situation, I could see it doing very well in small clubs, 50-100 people, even with a heavy drummer. So if you had to choose between the classic cat and the CJ11 for your situation I would pick the CJ11 based on my experience.

I found a video clip here http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Not the best quality or playing but I think it captures some of the CJ tone, lots of effects though, not a lot of just the CJ alone

 

[AndreasChestnut]

Thank you guys, you've been a great help.
Since the dealer here has only one available for each model and since I told him I'd make the order ass soon as possible, I'll think about it and let you know after I get it...
Really, many thanks for your time and help.