Bartel Amplifiers: The Official Thread

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by teleking36, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. effectsman

    effectsman Member

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    So the higher wattage Roseland has more compression than the lower wattage Starwood?
     
  2. jnovac1

    jnovac1 Supporting Member

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    it is also fixed bias, the starwood is cathode biased.
     
  3. effectsman

    effectsman Member

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    Yes I realize they are both 6L6 tubes, Rosewood is fixed bias producing 45 watts and Starwood is cathode bias producing 28 watts. Does the cathode biasing make it more open and less compressed?
     
  4. jnovac1

    jnovac1 Supporting Member

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    was wondering the same, would expect the opposite. perhaps mlongano will clarify, as i believe he has owned both...i am 1500 miles or so from a dealer.
     
  5. mlongano

    mlongano Supporting Member

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    The Roseland has more compression, while the Starwood seems to have more “sag”. To me, compression is related to sustain, and the ability to even out the signal’s volume. Both have an “open” sound in my opinion. Perhaps I am just getting my adjectives mixed up!

    Watch the comparison video by Ray Kainz. You can hear the differences if you listen carefully.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  6. nicolasmasset

    nicolasmasset Member

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    I thought cathode gave more compression and spongey feel. Did you by any chance get to play the Sugarland? Are the clean and drives tone otherwise the same across the amps?
     
  7. mlongano

    mlongano Supporting Member

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    I have not played the Sugarland. The clean tones between the Roseland and the Starwood are close, only reflecting the differences wattage makes.

    The drive tones, as I mentioned earlier are very similar, but different enough for me to sell the Starwood and buy the Roseland. Again, listen carefully to the Ray Kainz video. Overdrive starts at 2:35.

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  8. mrunderground

    mrunderground Supporting Member

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    It's been great reading through the Roseland/Starwood comparisons. I have a Sugarland but absolutely regret not getting one of the higher ups for the onboard reverb. I'm not really concerned with trem, so would the reasonable upgrade simply be the Starwood? Been trying to find a used one and just sell my Sugarland afterwards but they don't appear to pop up on the used market much!
     
  9. jmelm

    jmelm Silver Supporting Member

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    @mlongano

    Question for you please as one who has experience with both the Starwood and Roseland. You did a great job of describing how the two compare at volume with gain, but when it comes to purely clean tones (my priority), aside from the added headroom is the more powerful Roseland, do you find there is a meaningful difference in the quality of the clean tones between the two models? (and if so, how so?). I’m about to pull the trigger on one and just need to decide on which model.

    Anyone else who has also compared both is more than welcome to chime in as well :)
     
  10. mlongano

    mlongano Supporting Member

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    The cleans between the Starwood and Roseland are similar enough where I doubt I could tell the difference in a blind test. I do however, enjoy adding just a touch of tremolo in my clean playing.
     
  11. jmelm

    jmelm Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks for your feedback. I do enjoy Trem but most of my other amps have on-board Trem so it's not essential, and I've got a few Trem pedals I like as well (the most recent being a Walrus Monument V2). So if Trem isn't essential and the cleans are very close, then it seems the Starwood is a better option for me. And especially now that I'm considering the new Head & Cab configuration, the $ saved in going with the Starwood over the Roseland will pay for a little over half of the upcharge between the Head & Cab over the combo.
     
  12. mlongano

    mlongano Supporting Member

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    The last I heard, Mark’s stacks built for NAMM were going to Chuck Levins Washington Music Center, although I have never seen them advertised for sale. Mark is shut down right now for the Corona Virus situation, so you may have to wait for a while.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  13. jmelm

    jmelm Silver Supporting Member

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    Yeah, and I’m willing to wait. They now have a Canadian dealer so it’s probably better for me to go through them, particularly if whatever model/configuration I want is not immediately available. And I think I do prefer the cream/brown color combination best. So looks count too :)
     
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  14. Magnets And Melodies

    Magnets And Melodies Member

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    Who is their Canadian dealer? That's great news.
     
  15. jmelm

    jmelm Silver Supporting Member

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    “Axe and you Shall Receive” is the brand new dealer. I’ve only bought a single effect pedal from him before but he carries a lot of high end gear so I’m sure he knows his stuff.
     
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  16. Magnets And Melodies

    Magnets And Melodies Member

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    Oh that's great to know thank you :D I've bought from him before and he was great. This is good news!
     
  17. truckin

    truckin Supporting Member

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    I have a Sugarland arriving Monday from CME. Excited to say the least, that video of master Tomo playing it sealed the deal. I already have a '66 Super Reverb, Jim Kelley Reverb, Milkman Half Pint and Komet K29 so hoping this will fill the gap that's missing in my collection. Will report back.

     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
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  18. Timbre Wolf

    Timbre Wolf GoldMember Supporter Gold Supporting Member

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    Ever play one of Tomo’s signature Two Rock amps?
     
  19. truckin

    truckin Supporting Member

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    I have not, hopefully will someday! I've really started to embrace the whole dry tone thing he often talks about, it has helped my playing tremendously.
     
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  20. leighianson

    leighianson Supporting Member

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    I tried both the Starwood and Roseland side by side in the shop and walked away with the Starwood, as I though it sounded a bit more midrangey and vintage. I did initially miss having on board trem but I’ve since picked up a Kingsley Bard and am very happy with the results. I also found a brilliant new setting using my R6 the other day with the Treble at zero, Bass at 4.5 and Volume on 5. Sounded righteous
     

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