Beato "gets it" ..the brilliance of Nirvana

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by muzishun, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Lucidology

    Lucidology Member

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    Beato is both open minded & eclectic ...
    Not to mention a Mo Fo of a musician ...
    He kills on both guitar & piano ...
    No question about it, I mean this dude plays very well ...

    Though not a fan of Nirvana,
    he sure challenges me to look at their music from a different angle ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  2. mikebat

    mikebat Member

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    I am a fan, but not a freak or biggest fan of Nirvana and I thank them for driving a stake into the heart of Barbie Rock.


    That said...and kinda OT....I watched "Montage of Heck"...and I could not wait for that pile of drivel to be finished. What a childish excersize.
     
  3. BriSol

    BriSol Member

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    To some extent I think Beato is reaching, both in an attempt to appeal to a certain demographic, and in the exaggerated nature of his claims (the claims he makes about the merits of Nirvana's melody writing are hyperbolic).

    FYI: If a punk rock musician accidentally stumbles on a lydian chord, it doesn't make them a keen modal music writer. I don't see much point in doing an in-depth theoretical analysis of things that people actually crudely put together without theoretical knowledge, and then attributing musical hipness to them based on what they crudely came up with because it happens to contain a few sus chords.

    Being of the generation who is Nirvana's original fanbase, having been that kid with a Cobain poster on my wall when I was 11 years old, and having everyone and their sister from one's generation call them the greatest band to a point of ubiquitous absurdity, the last thing I need is a baby boomer further "confirming" that hype-conventional-wisdom sentiment, wrapped up in a theoretical analysis that implies more brilliance than is really there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  4. Skeet skeet!

    Skeet skeet! Member

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    If you really want to get the Nirvana experience you should turn the lights out.







    Because with the lights out, its less dangerous

    :anon
     
  5. MikeFM

    MikeFM Member

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    And with no disrespect to Rick, but who gives a s***t what he thinks either way?
     
  6. ChampReverb

    ChampReverb Silver Supporting Member

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    I’m a songwriter and I could tell right off the bat that Cobain had an intuitive sense for chord / melody combinations that rival the very best songwriters out there.

    Judging simply by what he actually wrote he traveled no well-worn playbook.

    You might not like the genre or the delivery but the actual songwriting had a lot of unusual twists and turns that were very melodic and harmonically compelling.

    If Steely Dan had delivered some of those same chord / melody combinations in the Steely Dan style they would have been heaped with praise.

    Saying that Cobain’s popularity was only based upon some timely social cosmetic angry revolutionary /reactionary appeal is marvelously short-sighted, dismissive and revealing but apparently really common.

    Some people also think that Coltrane was all honking noise and The Beatles were just another pop boy band.

    -bEn r.
     
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  7. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    He’s far more Gen X than he is boomer. Both age and experience-wise.
     
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  8. ChampReverb

    ChampReverb Silver Supporting Member

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    Cobain had really good ears and he used them.

    -bEn r.
     
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  9. Petethekiller

    Petethekiller Member

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    He is probably a lot more famous now than he was in 94. Proof positive of his enduring talent.
     
  10. guff

    guff Member

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    "objectively looking at the actual notes" is "missing the point of music" (listening and/or playing). Your words, remember? If you read condescension in my previous response, it must have rubbed off from the post I was addressing. Cope.
     
  11. rickcard71

    rickcard71 Member

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    I wonder if he could hear greatness in Britney Spears’ Toxic as well.
     
  12. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

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    I was already aware, even back then, that Nirvana was very sophisticated melodically... but my takeaway from this video is that it's been a while since we've had music in the mainstream that was simply so crushingly heavy... HSB and You Know You're Right... they're simply pounding. I had sort of forgotten about that point.
     
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  13. GuitarGuy66

    GuitarGuy66 Member

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    Beato needs to tune his guitar. Driving me crazy
     
  14. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    I think if one has to qualify talent based on what it looks like
    they probably shouldn't listen to music anymore - they should
    get into programing. To many people music is visceral and
    subjective - it's not based on how inventive the songwriter
    may be - it's how the songwriters soul transcends the space
    between us all and touches whatever muse connects everyone.

    That's why Nirvana struck a nerve with a super large audience -
    overshadowing the rest of supposed 'grunge' movement.

    It's also why so many musicians have confounded the 'experts'
    and remained immensely popular despite the dirth of anything
    truly musical creative.
     
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  15. champion ruby

    champion ruby Member

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    I think Nirvana are one of the most overrated things.

    That aside songs like HSB really grabbed me when I was learning their stuff as a teenager. Beato is right that there is a lot of cool stuff going on in those songs. I've always double tracked guitars with chorus on one like that but not hard panned.

    I like that he does that. I wouldn't write stuff like that (or many other cool things that uneducated players come up with) purely because of my education.
     
  16. Steve1216

    Steve1216 Supporting Member

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    Illustrating, once again, why I despise this guy’s videos. A band that absolutely loathed formal music education, who pretty much made a careers of destroying a genre made up of technically proficient musicians on the basis that they were “lame”, and who would, I guarantee, laugh directly in the face of anyone that brought up theory in connection with making music... let’s dissect one of their songs to hell and back and apply every notion of theory
    Dude. Yes. This is the absolute epitome of why I dislike this guy's videos. Even rock bands that kind of know what they're doing... such as the Police... I highly doubt Sting was thinking in these hyper-technical terms when he came up with the riff for Message In A Bottle. And to people like myself, who know only basic theory, these insane exercises in naming every theoretical relationship of every note and chord are most certainly *not* what makes the songs great. It discounts a huge swathe of things other than theoretical reasoning that make bands and songs great.
    But, hearing him pull this schtick on a band that came from the antithesis of formal schooling on music... like, these types of guys sneered at anything beyond a 'fiddle around till it sounds good' approach to song writing and instrument playing... totally antagonized (and sort of destroyed) the genre that valued technical playing of instruments... c'mon. Beyond silly. It's like a world class chef taking a hobo's dinner of a sneaker boiling in a water and trying to decode the hidden skill of the formula while praising it and applying all of the snooty culinary names for the process and putting it on youtube.
     
  17. I Am Misery

    I Am Misery Member

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    how could he not? brilliant pop tune. have you suggested this to him?


    as overrated as they are in some ways, i think they're equally broadly dismissed (usually by certain types of guitar players) out of ignorance based on some trivial matter.

    this is very refreshing to see. good on you.
     
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  18. Tone_Terrific

    Tone_Terrific Member

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    But if the boiled sneaker was so appetizing to so many people figuring out what went into it makes perfect sense.
    Maybe the hobo lucked into an appealing ratio of salt to rubber that was never tried in isolation before and it worked!
    To the craftsman/chef that can trigger an opening into a creative channel that may have been missed previously.

    Look at all the people that benefitted from the discovery that Auto-Tune artifacts could be applied as an enhancement effect.

    Beato points out 'recipe' ingredients that yield results. Whether you use them as part of a formula or just plain stumble across the technique by intuition having a grasp of cause and effect is always useful, even if it is to avoid making a similar error.
     
  19. MemphisMod

    MemphisMod Member

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  20. jkendrick

    jkendrick Supporting Member

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    I don’t mean to single you out, but I’ve seen this kind of reply in many threads about Beato and other music academics. Interestingly both from obviously learned musicians and those that seem to reject any book studying at all. Whether or not the artist had foreknowledge of the academic description of what they were doing is largely irrelevant. The song works. Beato clearly explains some unusual note choices that were clearly instinct to Cobain. That’s genius. McCartney was the same way. I heard Martin once completely effusive in his praise of McCartney’s instinctual melodic brilliance on She’s Leaving Home. But as we non-geniuses have to study to get those brilliant melodic ideas, I find it very helpful to break down and understand what was going on in great songs. Where you seem to think Cobain wasn’t a genius because he didn’t know he was playing a Lydian chord, I think he was a genius exactly because he didn’t know he was playing a Lydian chord.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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