Behringer XR18 - how many rack U?

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by Gasp100, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Why can't I find this information anywhere???
    I just need to know how many U it is???

    IS it weird they don't have a full blown version of the application for use on a MAC or PC? I would like to try and bring a Surface Pro to shows and control this via wifi while at the SAME TIME recording via USB. Impossible?
    The Mackie DL1608 has the Master Fader application that can let me control the DL1608 / iPad from my phone. Anything in the works for this with Behringer?
     
  2. 3dognate

    3dognate Supporting Member

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    It looks like it's 3U and the X12 is 2U... I have the same question... I'm holding out on the Behringer unitil June when XR12 is available. I'll probably grab one of those as it'll make a perfect digital mixer for the acoustic act... I'll fit the mixer 2 IEMs and a Drawer for recievers and buds and batteries / picks all in a 4U rack.

    My only complaint with my Mackie DL1608 is that they did not include multi-track recording over USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt. But I don't require it... as nice as it would be. i have not tried it live yet with the 3.0 Master Fader app yet... I just up graded my iPad/Firmware this week. The new options sure do make the DL series much nicer.

    The X18 Might find it's way home though... rather than two mixers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  3. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    I really love the DL1608 but I'm thinking of a possible move and here are some reasons (if anyone cares LOL):
    1. Rack consolidation. DL1608 rack mounting is $99 which is ridiculous. The cost (and weight) of a mixer over rack spaces rack is quite high/heavy (figure ~$250? and not sure of the weight. Because the XR18 is rack built I could just get a simple Gator 8 space plastic case (much lighter/cheaper) and call it a day.
    2. We all use the Shure PSM200's and I have 2 in my rack and the inputs are on the front. Because the XR18 aux outs are on the front it would be super clean (short 1" XLR cables) for at least 2 of us.
    3. Integrated wireless = nice
    4. No physical rotary trim/gain inputs. I don't 'zero' these out between gigs, but they definitely get moved around during transport. It would be fantastic to have a truly saved snapshot of EVERYTHING for a live mix.
    5. 18 discreet tracks out is pretty huge. I could record EVERY track of EVERY show / rehearsal direct to disk, edit in Reaper and lock in with video footage to probably create near pro-level press kit demos at a moments notice.

    Issues:
    I really love the Mackie - it sounds great and I love that My Fader is on the iPhone and allows me to tweak on the fly on my iPhone (along with the rest of the band).
    Because the XR18 supposedly supports iPad and Android WTF would they not have the application ported to Windows mobile (8.1) and even MAC? Unless I'm missing something you can connect a computer directly via ethernet but where is the app? What I'd love to do is bring my Surface Pro and both control the XR18 and record USB audio.
     
  4. modulusman

    modulusman Member

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  5. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    There is very little solid info easily found on the XR18. It says built in wifi "triple band" or something like that but you absolutely NEED 802.11N (5k band?) these days. I guess the big difference for me is that my external router was specifically purchased and setup by myself and uses N. And more importantly, I don't take the iPad OUT of the DL1608 ever, even when mixing from the stage (I can't be 2 places at once and I don't have GTR wireless). So in essence I use the DL1608 as a traditional mixer.

    I guess this is where the major differences reside in that the Behringer absolutely requires your device maintaining communication to the box? But again, why is there no PC/MAC version which connects a laptop (or Surface) directly via ethernet to the XR18???
    EDIT: They actually do have MAC and PC software. I'm checking to see if I can download without the actual device and see what's up.

    So in essence I'd be replacing bringing my iPad (docked into the DL1608) set on a separate table vs. a complete racked rig (8U) but I would still need to wire my Surface and/or bring an iPad (and chance it on wireless connectivity) sitting on top of the rack. I "think" the Behringer is like the DL1608 in that if the rig was working and all of the sudden the device (iPad or similar) craps out the config is saved to the hardware and as long as no changes are made you are still good?
     
  6. 3dognate

    3dognate Supporting Member

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    WIth the built in Wifi in access point mode you can only connect 4 devices... you have to use an external network (WiFi Router) to handle more.

    So, I'd have one in the rack anyway... not a big deal to have a WiFi alternative on hand... plus... the mixer will work in it's saved state... you'd at least be as good as your last performance.

    (We keep our old Mackie VLZ mixer in the band trailer as back up to the our Presonus Board. That thing saved our skin a few times.)
     
  7. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Just FYI the built in wifi does not seem to be 5kz band (documentation mentions using an external router for 802.11N). IF you really want to use wifi this could be a big deal, everything I've read is anything over the 2.5 range is going to be super saturated, especially at a club with everyone using smart phones even if they aren't getting on hotspots they can still be "trying" without even knowing....
    And now that I think about it my Surface doesn't have ethernet built in (RJ45). I'm probably better off sticking with what I have / know.
     
  8. PhilF

    PhilF Member

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    The XR18 is 3U. You can connect via an ethernet cable to pc/mac with ethernet.

    You are correct in assuming that it doesn't make any changes if you lose connection. It holds the settings.

    I got one from Sweetwater a few weeks ago. I have yet to use it live because I haven't had a need for it yet, but there is also still some major work to do on Behringer's part in getting all of the apps/control programs up to par.
     
  9. 3dognate

    3dognate Supporting Member

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    Right, problem with 5Ghz is that the range sucks... i mean really sucks. Higher data rate and less saturated band... but absolute garbage for range.

    We just did an analysis of our wireless units and Wifi stuff... trying to get fewer dropouts and such.

    Last show the IEM and Instrument wireless' were are solid as a rock... The Wifi seemed to be doing well but we had some issues with our Mac Mini that we have racked that runs the Studio Live software, it would sleep and drop connection between the Mixer and Software. We think we have that worked out now.

    We trained a new mixer monkey on our gear last weekend too... total nightmare to prepare for... but worth it to get someone reliable in the FOH to mix us. We have 3 guys that know our rig well enough now. That should reduce us mixing from the stage to near never.
     
  10. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    How much range do you really need? I mean unless you're mixing a huge room filled with people from the back of the room I think saturation is a bigger deal than range, no?
    And the whole idea of the wireless connectivity is being able to mix anywhere in the room right? If they have connection issues can't they move closer while mixing?
    And honestly, in MY personal experience we are almost completely set it and forget it every show. I don't have the luxury of mixing out front so my main issues are getting everything plugged in and connected, turned on, IEMs going and then mains. If it's loud and clear it's good IMHO. The ONLY thing I've done during a show has been raising the overall Master and engaging the iPad audio outs for break music (UNMUTE/MUTE).

    I know my take on mixing above would be considered neanderthal mixing but the last two shows have been house provided sound and I've never watched sounds guys ringing in rooms/mixes and ****ing around with the sound while we were playing more in my life...
    Granted, it eventually sounded really good out front according to our people, but there were definitely instances of sub bass feedback, etc...
    When I do sound I guess we are just much simpler, quieter and we simply don't have any of those issues.

    For example, my personal opinion is micing toms is dumb. We were in a very big/long room on Friday and the acoustic kit was LOUD and traveled far. Instead of micing everything and bringing up the entire kit and then having to bring everyone else up and THEN having to bring up the vocals hi, why not try kick, some snare and build the entire mix from a quieter start. The club was half full all night, the room is huge, you could definitely hear and see us!
     
  11. orogeny

    orogeny Supporting Member

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    wazzap, greg!
    have you looked into the qsc touchmix yet?
    just curious. . . . . don't know if it meets your needs at all.
    i think i'm getting out of the presonus myself b/c i'm not in a 'big' project at all and i'm not doing sound. i have looked at the touchmix b/c i like to figure on what i'll get on the used market in six months or more ;)
     
  12. griggsterr

    griggsterr Member

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    As a seasoned veteran guitarist and FOH person. I sure have objections to being called a mixer monkey :)
     
  13. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Yes... an another thing, all of these new fangled mixers offer snapshots. So what exactly is so difficult about building a mix and saving it? Are the rooms that much different between venues that you absolutely must have another body, total wireless control, 100% of the time?
    Not for me thanks - I'll stick with the simple mix and pay the people actually working all night an extra $50 each.
     
  14. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Presonus is a good piece of kit. I used mine for over a year in a previous band and for all of my home studio work. The 16 discreet tracks out was a huge benefit to me and the only reason why I am not completely head over heels with the Mackie - it will only ever be stereo mix to iPad.
     
  15. RobJ

    RobJ Gold Supporting Member

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    Greg,

    Are you able to do a stereo mix with the XR-18? Looks like you have a USB-B connection only on the 18. I was looking seriously at the x18. I don't have a problem beta testing, but I do like to do stereo recordings of shows without having to have a computer connected. Other than the wifi, which seems like it can be handled with a router, and the early incarnation of the software, which will almost certainly improve, the USB thing is probably a deal breaker for me. I guess you would also have to use a computer connection for updates and such.
     
  16. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    You can call me whatever you'd like - I'll always get paid at the end of the night. <g>
     
  17. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Not sure what you mean?
    You definitely need to connect a machine via USB to do any recording. You can either do a stereo mix OR 18 discreet tracks (which is very impressive, similar to what the Presonus StudioLive could do via firewire).
    The Mackie DL1608 is all iPad based and there is an option to send a stereo feed / mix for direct recording. The iPad MUST be docked in the DL1608 for recording AND playback of audio. You can also record to Auria (or similar iPad based DAW) is your iPad based DAW allows background audio.

    The big difference is that the XR18 can do discreet tracks which of course gives you a wealth of options during mixing. But yes, on the flipside you have to connect to an external PC/MAC via USB. I guess it is pretty cool the Mackie (when iPad is docked) is running your mix AND can record stereo tracks into another app at the same time.
    I need to figure out how to use Auria (quickly) so I can record a show direct to iPad. But again, it will only be a complete stereo mix and not much post production options.
     
  18. RobJ

    RobJ Gold Supporting Member

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    I guess what I as asking was if you knew if the X18 could do stereo recordings without having to do descrete recording and then remixing.

    Like you, I have the Mackie unit. We all have different needs. For me doing a stereo recording is important. I put on some open mics and like being able to give the performers a copy of their performance. I would not like doing discrete recordings, then mixing and mastering them. Been there, done that. If the X18 also had a USB-A connection that allowed stereo recordings, I'd be all over it. I'm guessing the closest thing would be the x32 Rack or the Touchmix. Just not that hip on the Touchmix form factor.
     
  19. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    I've been considering a XR18, and seeing it had only a 2.4gHz wifi is not good, but not a showstopper. IME using a X32 in various venues, along with my previous band that tours all over the place with an X32, a 5gHz router should be a requirement. In our church we have 10 or so Line 6 wireless mics which work on the 2.4gHz band, and we couldn't get a single iPad to connect to the X32 through that band. But we put in a dedicated 5gHz router for the X32, and it is solid as a rock, not a single connection issue in well over a year of hard use (4 services a week, 5 iPads, maximum 70' straight line distance from the router).

    My band mates that tour have the same setup, with the same results (no issues at all with a 5gHz router). They don't even gig with a backup, but if the wireless should ever fail, they have the faders on the X32 to adjust locally.
     
  20. RCM78

    RCM78 Member

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    5gHz wont be an issue as long as you have line of sight from the device to the router. 5gHz does not go through solid walls very well, at least not as well as 2.4gHz does. So if there is a wall in the way you may have issues...
     

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