Bermuda Triangle of Vertex Wah Threads...

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Blues Lyne, Jul 22, 2014.

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  1. Blues Lyne

    Blues Lyne Member

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    How is it that we have a thread that starts out with the OP calling someone a piece of garbage and it gets made a sticky, a thread with the subject line of this1smyne is ripping me off and it gets locked but it's still there for all to see, threads where Teddy at musictoyz is accused of lying (again, locked but left), but mention that the Vertex wah looks like the BBE wah and uses the same board and the threads completely disappear?

    I didn't see anywhere where people were making disparaging remarks about Mason. Maybe I missed those in the first two threads, but I was typing a reply to the last one when it disappeared, so I'm pretty sure I didn't miss much in that one. Yes, there was speculation about the product, but the questions seemed reasonable given the similarities in enclosure, wiring, pots and inductor when viewed side by side. Sure, those who were sticking up for Vertex made some accusations of slander, and there was some back and forth, but no worse than many, many threads on TGP.

    I don't think it helped Vertex much to delete the threads. His explanation is now gone, so those who saw the questions without seeing the explanation are left to speculate. The forum for his explanations to be validated is gone. Those who saw the threads aren't going to magically forget what they saw, and the disappearance of the threads is likely to fuel the thought that something fishy is going on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  2. NakedInTheRain

    NakedInTheRain Member

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    inb4 slope shoulder dude...
     
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  3. sanhozay

    sanhozay klon free since 2009 Silver Supporting Member

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    discussions are healthy

    when threads disappear it feels like lawyers

    however, after a quick period of preliminary back & fourth holding "some" merit, those threads appear to serve as nothing more than device for assumption and speculation
     
  4. Fuzzr

    Fuzzr Supporting Member

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    I would definatley like more answers to my questions before I put down that much on a Wah.
     
  5. ufo~

    ufo~ Member

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    @OP
    Are you new to internet forums? If not, you should be used to the censorship. Especially here.
    Just get an RMC10 and be done.
     
  6. Fuzzr

    Fuzzr Supporting Member

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    I'll have to check one out for sure.
     
  7. lifeinsong

    lifeinsong Member

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    The Vertex Axis Wah is about as good as it gets. I have the NOS version and absolutely love it! Mason's been modding pedals and building pedalboard rigs for a number of years for some of the best players in the world, so his reputation shouldn't be in question.
     
  8. Fuzzr

    Fuzzr Supporting Member

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    Nobody is questioning his reputation, it's clear he has a stable of artist in his fold. The question is about his Wah pedal and its origins. I like clarity when about to purchase a pedal.
     
  9. Dana Olsen

    Dana Olsen Gold Supporting Member

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    Your characterization of the thread that was nuked conveniently leaves out the character assassination, suggestions of intellectual theft and outright lies posted by a few troll types.

    Vertex made clear that he uses the same pcb as BBE does, but with different components. He also made clear that he winds his own Halo inductors in house, and that all parts are made in the USA, yet a couple posters insisted he was lying about that, and questioned his character and honesty.

    THAT'S NOT a discussion about effects and how they sound, which is ostensibly what we do here at TGP. Mason's posts were clear and remarkable for being factual, calm and informative - as though they were written by an adult who had a little balance in his life.

    I can only hope that further discussions offer more of that sort of perspective from more posters. It's one thing to ask pointed questions or to have a strong opinion, but quite another to use a discussion forum to knowingly spread lies and impune someones character. Can't we just talk about the facts of a pedal's construction and our impressions of the tone and leave all the acrimonious stuff out of it?

    Thanks, Dana O.
     
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  10. Stratm69

    Stratm69 Member

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    Does Mason give credit to BBE anywhere on the Vertex website? If not, how would the buyer ever know they're paying $400 for a tweaked version of a $150 pedal? The only way they would know is by coming to TGP and hunting through the thread searches to find the truth. To me, all of this is false advertising.

    If I was to go on eBay wanting to buy a Boss SD1 and seen one listed for $150, I would at least like to know why that one is listed for so much when I can find one for a fraction of that. But only to find out it was Keeley modified after contacting the seller. See what I mean? People like to know what they're paying for, and if its a modified version of something else then coming from a buyers perspective we would like to know that as well.
     
  11. Blue-moon

    Blue-moon Supporting Member

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    I am a big fan of Vertex. Seems like they do great stuff. I thought the thread was a fairly healthy discussion. I thought Mason's response was very refreshing and informative. I wished it had not been nuked.

    As a fan of Mason's, I do think that some of the points that people were making were legitimate and I think people have/had the right to be concerned. If I owned the Axis wah (which I did at one point), I would want to know the truth and the truth came out (Mason's response). I have no reason to doubt him. As a side note, I thought his wah was fantastic, but I didn't use it enough to justify the price I paid so I sold it.

    I do think that Mason can handle this himself. I think those who come to his defense with so much passion actually end up hurting him. He is a big boy. He can handle this himself. And he handled it well until the thread was nuked. Now the conversation just keeps coming up as there is no perception of resolution. If the thread had stayed, we wouldn't be having this conversation---people would have moved on.
     
  12. Blues Lyne

    Blues Lyne Member

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    I guess I didn't see much that i would interpret as character assassination, but as I said, I could have missed some posts from the first two threads. In the last thread, I was typing a reply that seems fitting for your response here. The truth is that at this point nobody on TGP knows what is under the goop or how close the two pedals are on a component level, unless they've seen both pedals with the Vertex ungooped.

    People pointed out that the pedals look alike. Not just the board, but pretty much any part you can see outside of the goop right down to the way the wiring is done. Mason gave the explanation you mentioned, only the board is the same etc. Which left some unsatisfied and/or with more questions, like why is he using a BBE board? Why is the construction so similar?

    Those with more questions didn't necessarily take Masons explanation as the whole truth. For me, it's hard to blame them. In many cases builders have come on here with similar information and it's later shown to be false. At some point people become skeptical. That's not Mason's fault, but it's the world we find ourselves in today. Yes, there are those who speculate that the Axis is a modified BBE. They have no proof, just evidence from what they can see in the photos.

    On the other hand, those like yourself who support Mason speculatethat what Mason said is the truth. The other folks get accused of lies, slander, character assassination, etc. You have no proof of this either, just evidence from what Mason has said.

    At this point both groups have the potential to be proven wrong so talk about facts and lies may be a bit premature. With the threads gone, there is nowhere for anyone to go and see Mason's response, which I agree was very calm and very well presented. He's obviously doing something right to have the clients he has. As to the Axis wah, it is one of the best sounding wahs I've heard. In all of this I don't believe anyone has disputed that it sounds great.
     
  13. Dana Olsen

    Dana Olsen Gold Supporting Member

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    You are implying that the Axis Wah is a modded BBE. That's not true - Mason has posted about this in the past. Non disclosure agreements prohibit him from further discussion.

    He has also stated something we all know to be true - that the basic design and circuitry of ALL wah wah pedals are from the old Vox circuits, and that all wah wahs are variants of that circuit.

    The difference in the Axis Wah, and all wah wahs, are the component quality, the component values, and some added features - we all know this too. There's nothing to be gained in trying to push Vertex into revealing what the component values and manufacturers he's chosen are, or what design changes he has made are. He has clearly stated that the Halo inductors used in the Axis Wah are made in house and hand wound, and further that they are NOT made from a kit (as you stated in the previous thread though you knew it wasn't true even as you wrote it.)

    Mason is an adult and he is perfectly capable of discussing his Axis Wah with others who act like adults - he needs no help from me or any other folks. I feel that you are trying to push the discussion towards acrimony and doubt about Vertex's truthfulness regarding the design and construction of the Axis Wah. The purpose of TGP is not to impune the character of a builder, but it IS to discuss builds. If you have legit questions, why not post the question and ask for a response?

    Again, if you think the Axis Wah is over priced, don't buy one. Regale your friends with tales of your purchasing skill. Vertex's list of endorsers will do the same.

    Thanks, Dana O.
     
  14. Stratm69

    Stratm69 Member

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    If it works for the user then that's great, that's all that matters.

    But when it comes to buying things for myself, I like to know exactly what I'm paying for as would any other smart buyer. And if a handful of parts that only costs $50 or less and means a price jump of $300+ dollars when buying something... I think ill take the BBE and mod it myself, not worry about any goop, and save the money for another pedal.
     
  15. Dana Olsen

    Dana Olsen Gold Supporting Member

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    That's totally cool Stratm69 - this is the kind of discussion I dig on TGP. It's a big world out there, and lots of choices to be made. We're not all the same, thanks god, and having choices is great; critical, actually.

    I mean, in the end, we all just wanna feel like we sound great and are inspired when we play. You gotta use what gear you like to get there, and there's lots of room for everybody's tastes.

    Play on, Thanks, Dana O.
     
  16. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

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    Lots of personal attacks in all directions. Maybe too many to remove.

    That and the builder continuously violates the spam rule (just look at the Trainwreck pedal thread). This place has a reputation around this kind of fervor and manufacturers who take advantage and pump/bump it up leave a bad taste for folks who don't care for spam. Even if there is some good will, they are ultimately taking advantage of the forum environment to SELL.

    Rules for Businesses 9a):

    a) We encourage participation by builders and retailers in answering member questions but are strict about spamming. Feel free to respond to direct questions about your products but please do not post about your products unless answering a direct question. Mentioning your products when not directly responding to a question about YOUR products is considered spamming. Mentioning prices or soliciting purchases in any way is considered spamming if outside of the emporiums.

    And, as it happened, there were a lot of questions to the builder so in those cases the rules weren't crossed.

    FWIW, I can remember when any mention of a Turbo Tuner problem in a thread was nuked in just a few hours. At least a dozen came and went. Just mysteriously disappeared. Lately when folks have problems, and no there aren't that many, the threads survive but not in the earlier days. Who knows the connection but I guess there was one. I suspect there is more behind the scenes than ordinary mortals can know.

    And if I disappear, you'll know I was on to something.

    Now where did I leave my tin foil hat. I'm gonna need it.

    hunter
     
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  17. Squigglefunk

    Squigglefunk Senior Member

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    nearly every $300+ "boutique" pedal is a clone of a $50 mass produced pedal with 2 bucks in parts swapped out lol...


    these builders should just disclose everything from the get go
     
  18. Classic09

    Classic09 Member

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    You do have the option to not buy the pedal. Just saying.
     
  19. dave_mc

    dave_mc Member

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    ^ So we're only allowed to care about ourselves now? Or are you saying if you don't know you deserve to be charged $300 for a glorified TS?
     
  20. Mark Robinson

    Mark Robinson Gold Supporting Member

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    You can roll your own for sure. The wah circuit is certainly "open" there are all sorts of web sites dedicated to wahs, tweaking them, modifying them.

    I've done some of that, and I've been through an embarrassing number of wah pedals, a few Teese, Fulltone Clyde, at least four Thomas Organ cry babies, several of which I modified for hardwire bypass. Oh a pair of Vox wahs too, have come through.

    Here is the problem, some wahs seem to be voiced for certain amp and pickup combinations. If you wah with a Les Paul bridge pickup, into a driving Marshall, you may need something different than you would if using a neck pickup on a strat into a Vox or Fender amp.

    Not everybody wants to mod or build pedals. I'm interested in the Vertex Wah, I have an Area 51 now, and it's pretty good. But there are too many controls on it etc.I can't remember what they do and they get jostled. I need stickers or something. Wahs are a bitch. No one unit is going to work for everybody into every amp etc.

    So you go through these fuggers, and make peace with one with a little luck. Either the shoe fits or it doesn't and what is the point of bitching? It takes time to wire up a pedal etc. The parts cost is trivial. Buy one or don't buy one.

    If Mason was full of ****, he wouldn't have "A" list players continuing to use his services. Being full of ****, you get found out quick, Mason is not that guy.


    So roll your own and show the world a killer wah for $150 bucks! More power to you! It will work for some guys, not all, but that's the nature of the effect as much as it is the effort of the builder. Otherwise why would there be so friggen many, even from individual builders?
     
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