Best 12” raw guitar speaker for me?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by GibsonGeek, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. FiestaRed

    FiestaRed Supporting Member

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    How about you pick?
     
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  2. andy474x

    andy474x Member

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    I would go Creamback, or as mentioned above, the V-type is actually a very nice speaker. Bends some of the best parts of a V30 and Greenback.

    V30’s are a love or hate thing, personally I think there are many more improved options, like the WGS Retro 30 or Veteran 30.
     
  3. GibsonGeek

    GibsonGeek Member

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    Interesting point about the V-type. What’s the reason for the lower price tag vs. the V30 and Creamback?

    For home recording a mic’d cab, does the G12H have anything over the G12M, as in a noticeable difference?

    Edit: Is this a fair assessment?
    “The tone of the G12H is also dramatically different than the G12M. While the G12M compresses thickly and has a creamy midrange, the G12H is a fairly flat-response speaker. It won't overemphasize any particular frequency, and there is also more high-end available on tap as well.”

    Sweetwater doesn’t sell WGS, so not an option at this time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  4. zwiefldraader

    zwiefldraader Member

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    The most obvious, boring, generic idea - but probably among the best regarding what @GibsonGeek asked for.
    BUT needs an awful lot of abuse until it sounds 'right'.

    That's why I would consider neither. Wouldn't consider WGS, even if they had them. Don't misunderstand me, these are great, great speakers, but seem all a good deal more polished than their Celestion counterparts.

    So, the V-type is the way to go. Excellent speaker, which improves on the Vintage30 and has some of the old-school-greenback-rock-vibe as well. This, or maybe the G12-35XC, Celestion built for their 90th anniversary.

    G12M and G12H sound fairly different one from the other and how the description reads - with the G12H still not being a flat sounding speaker regarding the EQ, but more so than the G12M.
    The mentioned G12-35XC is on a middle ground between them, the V-type adds some of the V30 goodness to that party, without the drawbacks. If vintage Green- or Blackbacks aren't in the play, the best option IMO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  5. MylMoosic

    MylMoosic Member

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    I just replaced the speaker in my Fender Supersonic 22 from the crappy stock Eminence to a Celestion classic lead 80. Fantastic speaker. Turned on to it by Eric Johnson and Joe Bonamassa, and it doesn't disappoint. Supposedly G12-65s are pretty good, but I've never used one and I know there are some clones so I'll stay out of the conversation regarding those. One thing I have noticed in videos I've listened to of the G12-65 is that they seem to break up pretty easily, even when paired up vs. a 50 watt amp. That VHT D-50 demo by Demos In The Dark on youtube kind of highlights that. Nice harmonic cone cry. Only a bad thing if you're into super high headroom speakers.
     
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  6. GibsonGeek

    GibsonGeek Member

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    Excellent, thanks. From your post and the other mentions of the V-type, I am now leaning in this direction.

    I guess because of the lower price compared to the Vintage 30 and Creamback, it’s natural for me to wonder “what’s the catch?”.

    $93 V-type
    $122 Vintage 30
    $143 G12H-75 Creamback
     
  7. Braciola

    Braciola Silver Supporting Member

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    Stick with the Vintage 30 especially if you're "wanting to learn/experiment with recording a mic’d guitar cab"
    It's the speaker I use when I record (and probably the most recorded speaker in history)
     
  8. Humble Texan Fan

    Humble Texan Fan Member

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    I think most of the suggestions missed out on the timeframe the OP is shooting for. Early to mid 70s would be blackback G12M25s or G12H30s, late 70s into mid 80s would be G12-65s or G12-80s. Later 80s would be original spec V30s.
     
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  9. BluntForceTrauma

    BluntForceTrauma Member

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    Eminence Legend V128 or V1216. $75 120 watts.
     
  10. MrTAteMyBalls

    MrTAteMyBalls Member

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    This is what I came to post. it's like a V30 but has the upper mid spike smoothed out. It sounds like a well broken in, vintage V30.

    It's also really good in a 1x12 config
     
  11. MrTAteMyBalls

    MrTAteMyBalls Member

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    I have a cabinet IR with the V type. I haven't played the real thing but the IR does sound really good. greenback vibes with V30 punchiness. Could be a good option and the price is nice, too.
     
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  12. HeavyCream

    HeavyCream Member

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    :agree
    FWIW, @Humble Texan Fan is one of the most knowledgeable speaker guys I know of.

    I know the V in V30 stands for “Vintage” but it’s not very vintage sounding. Too modern imo. Great for some genres but I don’t think it’s really what the OP is looking for. My vote is for G12H Cream ;)
     
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  13. andy474x

    andy474x Member

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    I'm not exactly sure why the V Type is priced lower than the V30, other than to say that Celestion intended it to be more of a budget speaker, including being spec'd by many amp designers to save a few bucks over the usual suspects like a V30. But, in doing so, they really did make a nice sounding speaker. It's not just cheap amps you see them in, they're in the moderately priced Fender '68 Custom Deluxe, and even some boutique builds, I think Suhr is putting it in their new Hombre amp.

    The strengths and weaknesses of V30's and Greenbacks, IMO, are this: The V30 has a ton of presence, but a big "hole" in the treble, which becomes more apparent as you add OD/distortion. Add to that (and this is getting into conspiracy theory territory, but I'll put it out there) I don't think the modern V30's have that much midrange content either. I think the V30 reputation for having a big "upper mid honk" comes mostly from when Mesa Rectifiers were the big thing, but Mesa uses special V30's from Celestion. Mesa's V30's are made in England, and to a different spec, with a good deal more midrange, whereas the "normal" V30's are made in China, and if you listen to them side by side, you can definitely hear the difference. Now, I'm not saying a stock V30 is a bad speaker, but I think they're riding on an overrated reputation for being the best speaker for anything and everything. I actually think they sound very good clean or with light gain, especially in a closed back cabinet, but when I go for high gain or open back cabs, I like them less. The Greenback, and speakers inspired by it, are skewed the other way, more treble and less presence. They sound very nice for classic rock overdrive, but clean can sound a little "dry" because they lack that presence. They also don't have as much low punch as V30's, although some of the higher power variants like the Creambacks improve on that.

    So, what the V-type got right was adding some of that Greenback treble to fill in the hole in the V30 EQ, and it just makes it more of a balanced speaker. It would be at the top of my list for a good all-around ceramic speaker.
     
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  14. mudster

    mudster High Prairie Wrangler Silver Supporting Member

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    Does EV still make the "Force" series? I used to use the EV force 12" and it was a fantastic guitar speaker. They were recommended to me by a tech in the mid 80's and I think he said they were actually made for PA/monitors but they are much cheaper than the classic EV's and lighter too. They sound fantastic with guitars.
    just an idea - I am not sure they still make them.
     
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  15. GibsonGeek

    GibsonGeek Member

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    I went with the Celestion V-Type.

    I appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out, and for not making me feel dumb for asking the most basic of questions. I read/research quite a bit, but getting some real world advice makes the difference.

    After 25ish years of playing and gigging, you’d think I would have learned a thing or two about what’s under the hood.
     
  16. zwiefldraader

    zwiefldraader Member

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    It took at least 15ys of playing guitar until I stumbled into the terms Pre-Rola and Pulsonic for the first time. The odd thing about?
    I had a '69 basketweave 4x12 with 3 originals in them for about 5ys already then, WHICH I BARELY USED.
    :jo
    If I had been at TGP at that time, I surely would've lost my membership here.

    I don't talk about all those annoying lacks of knowledge over the years, to keep my credibility.
    But... Took
    me 25ys to get the Fuzz Bug.
    Now I am in my forties and Pre-Rolas and FuzzFaces are my favourite choice.
     
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  17. GibsonGeek

    GibsonGeek Member

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    Update. No speaker for me. Seems the incompetence level over at Sweetwater is high. Their FedEx system tells them my address doesn’t exist. Odd, since I receive FedEx deliveries regularly. Cancelled my speaker order along with the Two Notes Torpedo I was all excited about. Ordered a mic stand separately, which they successfully shipped out USPS. I’ll send it back when it arrives and be done with them.

    Or I could just relocate to a new home with an address that better suits their system.
     

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