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Best Master Volume?

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,964
I recently bought a Kingsley D50 which is an incredible sounding amp. However, it's very loud and I'd like to add a PPiMV to it. I've installed the trainwreck style master volume before on marshall amps which work very well when you're just trying to dial down a smidgeon's worth. Anyone have any other suggestions?
 

Swarty

Member
Messages
1,131
Hi Jack,

There really is no best, the one you used on the Marshall should be fine (dual 250k pot replacing bias splitters?). I personally like the dual 1m that splits the 2 coupling caps into 4. But the simplist is the one Matchless uses which is just a simple 1m pot with a wiper and leg going to each side of the output section. The other leg is not connected as this design uses phase cancellation to attenuate the signal. I went through a Kingsley 30 some years back and was blown away by the build/component quality. The only production amp I seen with Solen non-polar filter caps! It also sounded incredible.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,964
Thanks for the advice. The one I've used before was this one:

http://blueguitar.org//new/schem/misc_mod/pi-m-vol.pdf

It sounded good and was transparent when all the way up. I'm not looking for overdrive at a low volume. I just want to dial down some of the overall volume since the amp is so loud.

How do you think the matchless master compares to this ?

Hi Jack,

There really is no best, the one you used on the Marshall should be fine (dual 250k pot replacing bias splitters?). I personally like the dual 1m that splits the 2 coupling caps into 4. But the simplist is the one Matchless uses which is just a simple 1m pot with a wiper and leg going to each side of the output section. The other leg is not connected as this design uses phase cancellation to attenuate the signal. I went through a Kingsley 30 some years back and was blown away by the build/component quality. The only production amp I seen with Solen non-polar filter caps! It also sounded incredible.
 

SKJ

Member
Messages
76
Jack - the dual 1M pot version sounds much better than the Matchless style version (at least in my amps) as far as I am concerned. The only thing is that there will be a small amount of attenuation, even with the master up full.

Cheers,

Simon Jarrett
 

rooster

Member
Messages
2,119
Many people may chime in on this, but don't replace the bias resistors with a pot; use the one where the PI signal is coupled through the capacitors to the PPIMV, and then through 2 large caps to the bias resistors. If either section of that pot goes out, you will lose your bias supply, and that could take out your power tubes (best case) or OT (worst case).

rooster.
 

Swarty

Member
Messages
1,131
The Matchless type is OK for slight attentuation, but sounds pretty crappy dialed way down. Heck, a bzillion Matchless guys must be ok with them. It is real quick to install and if you don't care for it you can do another type.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,964
Since I'm just interested in taking the edge off the volume, maybe a weber mass would be a better option for me?
 

Free

Member
Messages
1,304
It sounded good and was transparent when all the way up. I'm not looking for overdrive at a low volume. I just want to dial down some of the overall volume since the amp is so loud.
I'd highly recommend looking into what circuit TopHat (Brian Gerhard) is using on the "Club" and other amps, since what you state above is what it does best. And, the master volume is essentially bypassed at max position, not adding any gain at all.
 

rhp52

Member
Messages
1,885
I'm envious. I've wanted a kingsley for awhile. Make sure you give us some clips, Jack........
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,964
I'm envious. I've wanted a kingsley for awhile. Make sure you give us some clips, Jack........
I will. I'm going to be using the kingsley to demo the ethos, wilson wah, lovepedals and some other stuff in the very near future!
 

soli528

Look, my first gold medal.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,147
I used to have a weber mass and I loved the feature set, but I couldn't get past the tone coloration. It takes the level down nicely though. If you want to try one out you can likely find one here and pass it on for the same $$$ if it doesn't work out. I tried an Alessandro Muzzle once that was the cleanest slight attenuation I had ever heard- problem was it only took off a few dB's- If you just need to take the edge off this may work for you- I picked it up in the emporium and the seller was nice enough to take it back when it didn't quiet things down enough. I love this place.
 

ChickenLover

Member
Messages
2,262
Attenuators and amps seem to get-along/not-get-along like a lot of other guitar stuff. One attenuator might work great on one amp then not so much on the next...don't know why this is. I think the Alessandro Muzzle is just an Airbrake (Airbrake is Ken Fischer designed and then was built by several others over the years...I think Kendrick may have made one too). I have a Z Airbrake (same design) and it works pretty well for just knocking a few dBs off...but it's still pretty loud.

When the Mass first came out everybody seemed to use the logic; "It's just like a speaker so the amp is seeing a 'real' load like it usually sees...so that must sound better than a purely resistive load like an Airbrake." It's never that simple.;)
 

PHILOCHE

Member
Messages
18
I think master volume's really great on Matchless JJ30.
Except for heavily overdriven sounds needing always to play loud, it allows to keep pure,inspiring and beautiful sound at quiet bedroom's level when master volume's engaged.
When MV's off, this amp plays wild and LOUD.
I'd notice MV effect seems different on JJ30 than on Chieftain or Spitfire. More musical to my sense.
Are there technical reasons or is it just my own perception (subjectivity)?
 

Swarty

Member
Messages
1,131
Jack, you are going to murder no matter what kind of crap you play out of... It is us mortals who have reason to be so concerned about the gear.

The reason I asked about the tubes was because if the plate voltage is low enough JJ 6V6s would be an option... I was hoping you were going to say EL34s as they bias up very close. A few months back I put a pair of JJ 6V6s in a JCM800 running about 430V and it was fine and sounded wonderful!
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,964
Jack, you are going to murder no matter what kind of crap you play out of... It is us mortals who have reason to be so concerned about the gear.

The reason I asked about the tubes was because if the plate voltage is low enough JJ 6V6s would be an option... I was hoping you were going to say EL34s as they bias up very close. A few months back I put a pair of JJ 6V6s in a JCM800 running about 430V and it was fine and sounded wonderful!
Thanks for the kind words. :)

Maybe Simon can answer the question. He did tell me the primary side of the OT was 4k so I would think that wouldn't work too well with the 6V6 tubes I'm thinking a trainwreck style master turned down to 12 O'Clock or an attenuator turned down 3db should do the trick. Tonight, I was practicing some fusion stuff and even with the volume on 1 it was still very loud.

Thanks for your help.
 




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