Best OOMPH! Pedal for making notes pop out of an already high-gain amp?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by gulliver, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    I have a Voodoo modded JCM800 (2205) and am very happy with the distortion channel, but it gets a little crazy when the gain is turned up too high. Any recommendations on a pedal that can add just a little oomph to get the notes to pop out of it’s maximum usable distortion. Something that doesn’t change the original tone, but ads enough sensitivity where fast pull-offs sound as if they are being picked.

    Of my pedals, the H&K Tubefactor works the best, but I’m thinking one of the modern solid state pedals may be better for this ... what about the Gainster?

    The problem with pedal clips is that they usually use a fairly clean base for the demo.

    Thanks.
     
  2. grego7

    grego7 has left the building Gold Supporting Member

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    I think if you add a pedal to the input of a heavily overdriven amp, it will just compress the sound and not really get any louder. You might want to consider a boost of some type in the effects loop (don't know anything about marshalls, does yours have an effects loop?).
     
  3. cvansickle

    cvansickle Supporting Member

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  4. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    I'm not too concerned about adding compression as I think that is necessary to get sensativity.

    I'm not looking to make the amp louder, just trying to get the notes to jump out without adding junk into the signal.
     
  5. TheGrooveking

    TheGrooveking Member

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    Here is how I do it:

    Run a very transparent compressor, Maxon CP101 works great for me. Then I run into a Decimator pedal or a HUSH pedal into a Fulltone Fat Boost. Between the compression, which seems to squeeze it just right, I run it through the noise reduction to help ensure that whan I feed it into the boost, it goes in very clean and comes out like a bomb! I am not joking when I say it literally makes the notes jump out the amp, somewhere between the compressor and booster it just really adds allot of umph to it. It works well without the noise reduction too, but I find that when I really crank things up, the NR helps.

    It's kind of like taking a basketball and squeezing it through a dime size hole, but when it comes out, it comes out into a vacuum, so it's increases in size 10 fold.

    TheGrooveking
     
  6. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny Member

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    yup,

    if you've got loads of gain happenin', only a treble booster will do. it'll add that dash of upper mids and high end to help you literally cut thru not only the mix, but the gobs of gain.

    course, the trick is finding the more musical sounding treble booster that best works w/ the amp.

    IME, the Time Machine Boost has worked wonders w/ marshall inspired amps. clark hampton, GDS Offset 18 watter, dr. z route 66, my old plexi head, all benefitted from its mojo.
     
  7. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    I would not recommend a treble booster with a hi-gain Marshall. I have had a few. They are cool with jtm45 style marshalls, Vox's etc tho. (to me) I play more often than not hi-gain and always have used pedals for a little more with my hi-gain modded Marshalls, regular Marshalls, Engls, Demeters,etc.. I find the pedals MI AUDIO in Australia makes are great for hi-gain amps.. Blue Boy , the Blue boy prototype, and also their Tube Zone is pretty good. Another great one is the Rodenberg Gas 808.. Awesome with hi-gain amps. I'd start with the MI as they're cheap used, and readily available on the net . The Zoom pd1 works really well with hi-gain amps to add 'more' . I also have a few modded Boss sd1's.. There was a guy (Paul Weller /Backstepper ) who's mods are my favorites by far, and I have 1 that you can dial in to sound great with any hi-gain amp. Also , I bought a Glen Wyllie pedal used , (I Scream MAn) that is just awesome with those type of amps. Anyway, I'm not a fan of treble boosters, or compressors at all with a medium to higain Marshall, but the only way you can find out what's best for you , is by trying lots of different pedals! Sometimes we get lucky , sometimes it takes a while.. I have different pedals for each amp , and each gig situation , and it's taken me 20+ years to figure out all that stuff! I wish I only had 1 amp and 1 set of pedals sometimes! ERIC
     
  8. somedude

    somedude Member

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    I've had good luck with TS9/SD-1 style overdrives with their level turned up high and their gain down around zero.
     
  9. Garygtr

    Garygtr Almost as good! Silver Supporting Member

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    TC Jauernig Luxury Drive...not a treble booster, but has a great presence to it.
     
  10. fatback

    fatback Member

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    An EQ pedal would work if you are patient to get it dialed in to your rig.

    for graphic eq:
    Sniper Mod Boss GE-7's get the job done.

    for a parametric :
    The old t.c parametric eq pedal can be a very a powerfull focusing boost, but you'll need a true bypass loop.
    The bjf SBeq is simple to use and sublime to the ears.
     
  11. ccoker

    ccoker Supporting Member

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  12. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    *UPDATE*

    So far...

    MI Audio Tube Zone - ericb's suggestion sounded the best based on clips and past threads (for whatever that's worth). The clips themselves weren't the sound in my head, but the way the notes pop without heavy saturation showed a lot of potential for putting before my amp. So, I bought a used one from a fellow forummate and should get it in a week or so.

    Ibanez Tube Screamer - You know, I have a minty 1982 one of these sitting around and will re-visit it against the Tube Zone when it comes.

    Compressor - I experimented with this using my G-Major and can see the value when used in a heavy or busy situation. The notes do pop but the noise floor is high and the more subtle dynamics are lost. I guess I look at compression as more of a side effect rather than something I'm going for.

    EQ & boosters - I used my G-Major to EQ and boost as well, and see the value. I have a second amp that really benefits from this, but I think the voicing and gain structure of my Marshall covers this well enough where a distortion type pedal will work best. I do have some pedals that I can re-visit, though, and will do so when the Tube Zone arrives.

    Thanks all ... and keep the ideas coming, I'll follow up when I get the Tube Zone.
     
  13. Don Rusk

    Don Rusk Biggus Bearfootus Vendor

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    does your amp have an fx loop ? an EQ in the loop is great for this post preamp - just bump your tone hotter thru the poweramp tubes...
     
  14. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    I've messed with EQ between the preamp and poweramp. Either there or before the amp. I see the value with my other setup, but even then I feel it's more of an accentuation of frequencies already there. I guess I'm looking for something to add more rounded attack to the notes (pop as I say). The Tube Zone "smooth lead" clip on the MI Audio website is what I consider good note pop, although not exactly the sound in my head.
     
  15. Filter428

    Filter428 Member

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    I use a Don Butler Rangemaster in front of my Marshall and I swear by it. I also use a Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive. Dialed in right it sounds amazing and it's very quiet.
     
  16. dankayaker

    dankayaker Supporting Member

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  17. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    I'm gonna go with the TC Jauernig DGTM. It's great and very transparent, excellent low/mid gain pedal and should do exactly what you're asking (use it on toggle switch right)
     
  18. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    I took ericb's advice and picked up a used MI Audio Tube Zone for $125. I have to say, this is a very good entry level boutiquesque pedal. Sure, there's a lot of adjustments that take hours to dial in, but better than buying dozens of pedals to find a good tone. I wasn't looking for this to use as a typical pedal through a low gain amp setting, but when using this pedal in that application it definitely provides many awesome tones ... none of which are "the sound in my head" type tones for me, but it's nice to be able to duplicate many of the clips you hear on this forum. In the application I purchased it for, which is getting oomph out of an already awesome Voodoo modded '86 JCM800 amp, it does a great job. First, I dialed it in to sound like my amp's voicing, so there wasn't a lot of tone change when kicking it in. Here, it compressed the tone in a nice way and made lead playing easier. The oomph I was looking for still wasn't there, so I messed with the tone controls to find a treble peak that made the notes pop. I ended up matching the internal bass to that of the amp, setting the internal treble to off and using the on-top dial to dial in the peak (back switch is in the all-the-way-right position, which was the thickest). The tone became a bit colored compared to my amp's original voicing, but notes popped very well for a great lead tone.

    I have an H&K Replex delay coming later this week that I hope will really pull this tone together.

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. loopjunkie

    loopjunkie Member

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    How about a zvex machine! that will REALLY make your sound POP out! I do it sometimes and it is really a shocker!:dude
     
  20. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    Cool zvex video, is that Gainster's voice I hear? A little over the top for me, though.

    Messing with the Tube Zone, I found that the best adjustments for good note pop make for a terrible tone when going through the clean channel. It's like, if the distortion setting is too high, it becomes compressed and you loose the pop. If the output is too high (with distortion too low) the signal is just amplified with no change in dynamics. There seems to be a sweet spot where the box's amp spits out notes the length of it's headroom, which sounds great going into the distortion channel set to high gain. Cool beans.

    :dude
     

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