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Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by MrMoose, Oct 8, 2016.
I knew you'd know...
You must be very young. So typical of these times...
Your pants must be too tight...
Trolls get bored easily. So much to check out in the pedals section... wonder why you're in the rack zone when you don't have a clue about it.
Best reverbs, I don't own either, but would love a eventide 2016 or a bricasti.
Delay, I like my Eclipse, but wish it was as open and programmable as something like an Orville or the big bad 8000. I'd love a Marshall Time Modulator, but doubt I'll ever own one. My TC electronics M350 is decent, but I love how simple it is to use. minimal menu diving. To be honest, I think I'd rather make my own delay processor using eurorack modules, there's some really amazing delays and other time domain effects in eurorack, and the openess to patch however you want. Only problem is eurorack modulars have a tendancy to never stop growing.
I don't understand the question:
"But is there anything that is not a pedal that does not sound sterile as for a reverb and delay? Or tube like?"
As for the reverse or gated reverb... it's a special effect you don't really use all the time like a regular reverb. You get bored easily with it. Other types or reverbs are more fun to use.
My 2 cents @italo de angelis is that my new/old PCM80 is so deep I won't get bored with it for at least a decade (OK, maybe never). People trading pedals every day 'cause they just can't dial in the tone they're looking for. I immediately found something I could use every day, but the real treats are yet to come. It's true that you have to dig into the menu to understand how much more you can do beyond the presets, but that's a hell of a lot easier than buying and selling $200 pedals every month...oh, in my opinion, that is.
I appreciate your help along the way too.
If diving into a menu to find out that you have steep slopes high and low pass filters that can TREMENDOUSLY change the tone of your delays (check the BandDlys in your Pcm) IS a problem for a 21st century young fellow or busy lawyer and they both sell and buy new delays compulsively, looking for something they already have but don't want to learn.... well... it means we are approaching the end of the human species as an intelligent one... and soon be doomed to lower life-forms "style of life".
It took me much longer to learn how to use a fork when eating spaghetti then making my delay sounding as good and even better than any analog delay out there.
And I have been saving so much money you couldn't believe. People need sale/buy cycles to let their life pressure out, rather than for good reasons, most of the times.
Wow, just wow.
That's rather hyperbolic. Approaches to guitar effects is such a minuscule and irrelevant thing, it's darned fallacious to correlate that to the wider area of human progress/evolution.
I see you try to be very optimistic.... given the "very positive" vibe the whole planet has been swimming in for the last 15 yrs...
A guy asks for advice on 'best' rack units and someone turns the thread into 'racks are better than pedals' and 'pedal people' aren't smart enough to ask the right questions.
Why can't some people stick to the point and answer the question that was asked?
Why can't some people remain silent and resist the temptation to **** on a thread that they don't 'approve of.'
This arrogant grandstanding is getting annoying.
I wish someone would come along who is willing to share their knowledge and teach others who may be new to rack units.
You can't go wrong with a PCM-80 or 81, as long as you're willing to take the time to learn it. Of every sound demo I have heard, the the PCM 80 and 81 have impressed as consistently sounding pleasing AND musical. @AnalogKid85 has some great demoes on soundcloud that I listen to over and over just because they sound so good and perfectly fit the music he uses to demonstrate them. Also check out his sounds for the Intellifex! And you can get an Intellifex for under $100 (in the US) if you're patient. It is a great unit to learn on as it doesn't have TOO many parameters to confuse someone just learning. I had the privilege to work with Italo on his forthcoming library for the Eventide 4000, and learned a lot while putting together the program for all of those new presets, but still want to go back and mess with my Intellifex, as well as learn my PCM-80 (which has been somewhat abandoned while working on the Eventides).
Which one is best? That's up to you, and I'll bet you will have to buy a few units to figure out what you like and don't like in a sound, but learning is a huge part of the fun!
Like an answer to a prayer.
Thanks for the informative post @JMMP1 !
I'm clearly outclassed here so I was going to offer a low cost suggestion to the OP if he/she is meerly dabbling. Screw it, I'll do it anyway. Check out a Digitech GSP1101. It won't be equivalent to some of the suggestions you might get in this thread but it might meet all your needs for a couple of clams in a rack format.
I understand the sentiment, but am not sure that I agree.
First, I should note that Italo always takes the time to patiently describe the (admittedly) complex process of programming these highly capable rack FX units. Also, he is frequently confronted with the charge that "its too complicated" or "it can't sound better than pedal X" (with three knobs). And, again, he explains how and why the components or the algorithms are designed to support superior audio and parameter control, often as not in the context of studio recording.
As for hyperbolic, I happen to share some of his frustration over a culture that, increasingly, can't be bothered to read anything longer than 144 characters and seems habituated to 10 second bursts of attention (TL/DR). It may be besides the point of the thread, but it was expressed in response to someone who took rather vigorous offense at the notion that rack gear is inherently "more evolved" than pedal gear (starting with the fact that it's not designed to be stomped on), and that their use requires a higher level of education. At first, you simply don't know the right questions to ask. That was true for me, at least, and in my quest to overcome the steep learning curve, Italo has always been super helpful.
Oh, he's passionate, to be sure. I mean, I've been to Italy, so I can picture him waving his arms around too.
Hopefully, we can get back to the topic at hand.
This is true for everyone. Even with pedals, you don't know what you don't know. I still don't know much about effects design, except that you can't learn without doing, and you have to use your ears. Go read a few of Italo's old posts on HRI, and you'll quickly learn there is more science and thought in Low Frequency Oscillator (LFO) selection and use than goes into making a nice meal. Not directed at you, quilsaw, but more piggybacking off of what you said
@quilsaw: At first, you simply don't know the right questions to ask.
@JMMP1: Even with pedals, you don't know what you don't know.
This is true. You're both right.
@italo de angelis is most likely right, but he rejects the 'wrong question' without giving direction toward the 'right question'.
His posts come across as 'you don't know what you're talking about but I do, but I'm not willing to share my vast understanding with you.'
I'm sure he has a wealth of knowledge, but his approach is entirely too arrogant and insulting.
This post is just so spot on. Thank you.
Some pieces of rack gear offer more powerful functionality, better sound clarity, better flexibility, stronger processors, MIDI preset capabilities, and better audio fidelity. Sometimes they're even cheaper than pedals.
Rack gear presents a slippery slope, though, as it's easy to get caught up in the minutia of what variables can be tweaked to achieve a certain effect, how a given algorithm works, or how a certain signal path can be leveraged to create something cool sounding. IMHO, that has its place for sure, as some people create beautiful sonic worlds using their gear in ways that push limits. That said, not everyone wants to be an engineer or software developer, they just want to write & record music using the very best gear available. Being someone that sits rather uncomfortably between these two camps, I struggle with this quite a bit more than I'd like.