Best rack reverb & delay?

Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by MrMoose, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. cbm

    cbm Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,789
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    I tend to approach this by having dedicated sessions where my goals are to create new sound presets. Then I leave that world, and just use those presets for a while. Don't cross the streams.
     
  2. deadlands

    deadlands Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree and his knowledge is important and I don't want to discourage him helping people here. But it's possible to do without denigrating those that don't share the same perspective.

    Again, none of that correlates to human progress/evolution. There are still enough people in the world that don't fall into that overly-generalized assessment that are making huge strives in many areas, especially in technology and medicine, to have an effect on human progress at large. Italo takes the fact that some people don't want to learn about HPFs or LPFs as some sort of indicator of human intelligence. It's highly arrogant that he believes his sphere of expertise in rack mount guitar effects and the conclusions he has drawn based on that expertise is indicative of the culture and humanity at large.

    The subtext of his words are that if you're not learning about HPFs, LPFs, Oscillators, Algorithm design etc .. in effects design, but instead use pedals, you're stupid and are an example of the decline of human intelligence. Those sort of sentiments and assertions are not helpful at all and do everyone a disservice. Great teachers strive to understand and steer people in the right direction, not insult them and accuse them of contributing to the decline of human intelligence.

    On a more humorous note, I did think being called an optimist was pretty funny. It's something my wife would never accuse me of, I guess when compared to someone far more cynical than me, I can appear to be optimistic!
     
    Funky Claude likes this.
  3. dcbc

    dcbc Member

    Messages:
    2,036
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Location:
    Texas
    I've had this for 20 years. Nothing short of fantastic.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. quilsaw

    quilsaw Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula
    @deadlands - I guess my experience with @italo de angelis has been different because I always asked him to explain his reasoning...in effect saying, "hey, I really want to understand this stuff, can you help me??" Being aware of his experience, I treated his insights and advice like the valuable treasure that it is. As stated, he's always, always, always responded to my questions with both patience and enthusiasm. That's what I call a great teacher. And, FWIW, other experts here have responded in a similar fashion, @splatt comes to mind immediately.

    In my opinion, The Tick was here trolling, apparently aggrieved over the lack of an appropriate TRIGGER WARNING to notify him that posts in this forum will tend to reflect the belief that racks are better than pedals. So, maybe he stumbled in here by mistake and was traumatized, poor thing.

    Anyway, in passing, he sort of proved Italo's points...you know, the ones about needing to study audio concepts to understand why he believes racks are better and why a lot of pedal guys can't be bothered to figure out why it might matter.

     
    AnalogKid85 and Tomo El Gato like this.
  5. Funky Claude

    Funky Claude Member

    Messages:
    319
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    This conversation should be about rack units.

    It would be about rack units if Italo could simply give his answer/opinion to the OP's question without all the arrogance and condescension.
     
  6. deadlands

    deadlands Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Location:
    Chicago
    I respect your perspective, but you're scapegoating Italo's condescension and arrogance. It isn't about The Tick, Italo has said many similar things to many other people. Enough so where I'm not the only person who's noticed it and has commented on it. My point is, there is much more elegant and efficient ways to state his case that does not require insulting anyone or make an overbearing assertion about human progress based on how some people use pedals and not rack units.

    Think about this for a minute, you're putting the onus on other people to study something they may not be interested in, in order to understand where Italo is coming from. Why don't we also put the onus on Italo to understand where the pedal users are coming from? Understanding each other is a two-way street.
     
    Funky Claude likes this.
  7. calfzilla

    calfzilla Cynical Hack

    Messages:
    3,864
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Location:
    DFW
    Well, obviously, we should all stroke Italo's ego so we can learn about why rack effects sound way better than pedals, even though tone is subjective.
     
    Funky Claude likes this.
  8. quilsaw

    quilsaw Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula
    Hey, I respect your perspective as well, DL, and appreciate your reasoned discussion, even if I might disagree.

    I was suggesting that my experience with Italo has been different because my approach to him has been different than, say, the Tick's was. He's clearly a qualified expert in this field and I treat him as such, grateful that he will actually take the time to explain complicated stuff to an ignorant newb like me. And yet, there's no real substitute for also doing my own reading and research. That onus is on me.

    For what its worth, I still come to my own solutions in my personal "audio" quest, especially if and when I'm constrained by budget or space or whatever else. For instance, I have elected (for now) to use an OC-3 and SuperEgo, on a $300 budget, as opposed to going all-in on an H-4000 or Eclipse. Can't be helped at the moment, but still its useful to me to know why I might save my pennies for them down the road and he's been more than willing to share that info.

    Let's face it, the point that he often makes - that rack units tend, by and large, to be capable of producing inherently superior audio (as compared to most pedals) - is not that controversial, in my opinion. It's simply a matter of having a larger footprint and improved circuitry and components. That doesn't mean they're always going to be the appropriate solution to your (or my) unique circumstances or needs.

    Some folks' response - perhaps yours - to his manner I would mostly attribute to an earnest passion, perhaps being combined with his use of English (as a second language). Others, those who might feel the need to argue that "the earth is flat" to a guy sitting in a space ship, clearly have other issues.
     
    amphog likes this.
  9. Funky Claude

    Funky Claude Member

    Messages:
    319
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    @quilsaw I would respectfully ask, where in this thread did anyone disagree with this assertion?

    Again, respectfully, where in this thread did anyone argue that the "earth is flat?"
     
  10. quilsaw

    quilsaw Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula
    There, fixed that for you, so it's just a bit easier for you to understand.

    Ummm, it sort has a habit of coming up in regard to rack gear....ummm, you might just take the most recent example (see below - expressed with just the sort of venom and disdain for someone's expertise on the subject to which I was referring).

    A post, I can't help but note, that you "liked". Did you like his assertion that "tone is subjective" or his obvious disdain for Italo? Either way, I guess, the thread is dead.
     
  11. Tomo El Gato

    Tomo El Gato Member

    Messages:
    1,731
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    This is spot on. It was an interesting and informative thread until The Tick et al changed the topic to hurt feelings.
     
    quilsaw likes this.
  12. Funky Claude

    Funky Claude Member

    Messages:
    319
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    So why the nasty insult? I understand perfectly. that's why I put earth is flat in quotation marks, just like you did. I think you knew that.

    You stated the thread is dead so I don't expect a response from you, but I will respond.

    This problem was not created by calfzilla, deadlands, or myself. The thread had gone way of course before calfzilla made his post.

    I understand calfzilla's post to be a comment on Italo's overall superior attitude and reluctance to be helpful.
    Yes. I liked his post for the above reason.

    Calfzilla stated "tone is subjective" which is not equivalent to 'pedals are better than rack units.'

    I believe that Italo IS a valued treasure on this forum. I believe he has much more knowledge on rack units and perhaps many other things than I do.

    I simply ask that he stop derailing threads into this 'I know more than you but you wouldn't understand' dead end.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  13. quilsaw

    quilsaw Member

    Messages:
    1,128
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula
    Really, I think I wanna be done here, but I guess I'll play another round, since you asked and since I should probably apologize.

    So, first, my bad if you felt that was insulting, more a lame attempt at humor, I guess. The point was intended to underscore frequent assertions that pedals are not inferior to racks, usually made by those who: a) don't know any better and b) are offended by an expert's opinion on the issues involved and c) are unwilling to become educated on those issues. I'll just call them "flat-earthers", OK?

    Calfzilla's post was just the most recent example, with a good dollop of Italo-hate thrown in for good measure, 'cause that always helps. Now, a quick grammar lesson on that post: "even though tone is subjective" is a subordinate clause, identified by the subordinating conjunction "even though", appending the independent clause "rack effects sound way better than pedals". If you have a problem with the equivalence of those concepts, I suggest you take it up with Calfzilla, as it was his statement. Naturally, I say this at the risk of sounding like a pedantic a-hole expert who might write for a living. (More humor, I guess.)

    The Tick's opening salvo was hardly better. And, yes, in my opinion, that is where this thread derailed. Italo responded, "People really need to learn the basics about signals, impedance, instrument levels and line levels... let alone routings and what not." Which, frankly, is a pretty reasonable response to obvious troll bait. He could begin such statements with something like, "for those who interested in preserving the audio quality of their signal, then...". But, then, I'm not convinced that would carry any water for a "flat-earther".

    I'm not saying that applies to the Tick, but if the shoe fits... From an pro-audiophile POV, pedal discussions are sort of like arguing about which spaghetti-in-a-can is best. I totally get that. And, for that reason, I don't go to Italo to ask him to recommend a DC powered effect that is durable enough to put on the floor and stomp with my foot, pass instrument level signals to a mono amplifier that is incapable of passing full-range signals or to an unbuffered FX loop or to argue with him about how stupid it is to have to read a product manual. I might have occasional need of such advice, but I'll probably get it somewhere else. Maybe, I can call you? :)
     
    Funky Claude likes this.
  14. apoyando

    apoyando Supporting Member

    Messages:
    895
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Part of the reason threads like this get so "off-topic" is that the initial thread title/topic is a little too open to truly answer in a reasonable way.....
    This is all over all the forums
    Best delay?
    Best chorus?
    Best strings?
    Etc etc.
    These questions work with some qualifiers to focus the discussion
    Best rack/delay under?$
    Best chorus to sound like?
    Even this is too vague often but at least likely to generate some useful responses.
    Otherwise it's just opinion after opinion filled with self-justification.....
    We can do better:)
     
    AnalogKid85, quilsaw and Funky Claude like this.
  15. Hamer95USA

    Hamer95USA Member

    Messages:
    2,811
    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    I originally used a Rocktron Replifex and Intellifex for delay/chorus/reverb. Both are good rack effects devices that I used and learned how to program. Thanks to being on the Huge Racks Inc. website and Italo de Angelis, I bought a Korg DL8000R with Italo's custom made presets for my chorus/delay/reverb needs for my guitar rig. His presets and the DL8000R sound capabilities was miles ahead of the Intellifex/ Replifex rack processors. I liked the sounds I got from that old Korg delay so much that I bought 2 more of the same Korg delays.

    Italo is one of the most knowledgable guys concerning rack effects processiong on any guitar forum. His presence on this forum is a wealth of information.



    Guitar George
     
    quilsaw, Serious Poo and Funky Claude like this.

Share This Page