Black metal : the new catch-all thread

Monotremata

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First, let me say that the graph you posted was neither comprehensive, nor wholly accurate by my reckoning. That aside, on to your question.
Exactly. I know the three guys that coined the term Grindcore personally. Ive been lucky enough to get a first hand 'This is how it went' lecture on it. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'Early Black Metal'. Wouldnt that be like Bathory and possibly Venom? Sorry but Napalm Death were influenced highly by the likes of Crass, Rudimentary Peni, The Amebix, and Discharge. Put them in the Punk tree or it aint right. The only one of the three that was even remotely 'metal' influenced, aside from a love of Black Sabbath, was Justin Broadrick and his love for Celtic Frost riffs at double speed.

And really Black Metal sprung from Hardcore?? Ive never once in an interview ever seen Euronymous or Abbath say 'Hey we were totally inspired to burn churches and worship pagan gods thanks to Agnostic Front and The Cro Mags'! What they did was a reaction to what they thought was 'fake theatrical' american death metal. They hated and despised most american thrash/death/hardcore (even though Euronymous sold lots of it in his shop).
 
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And really Black Metal sprung from Hardcore?? Ive never once in an interview ever seen Euronymous or Abbath say 'Hey we were totally inspired to burn churches and worship pagan gods thanks to Agnostic Front and The Cro Mags'! What they did was a reaction to what they thought was 'fake theatrical' american death metal. They hated and despised most american thrash/death/hardcore (even though Euronymous sold lots of it in his shop).
Maybe originally, but these days I don't think it's crazy to say that black metal has a good deal in common with hardcore, and especially crust punk. There are some early crust bands like Amebix that took cues from the likes of Venom and Hellhammer. Now you see black metal bands all over the place with pretty obvious crust influences and vice versa. Obviously, guys like Euronymous and Varg would never want their music associated with hardcore but Fenriz isn't nearly as small minded.
 
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]Now you see black metal bands all over the place with pretty obvious crust influences and vice versa. Obviously, guys like Euronymous and Varg would never want their music associated with hardcore but Fenriz isn't nearly as small minded.
Yeah, I was going to say that Darkthrone was probably somewhat influenced by some elements of hardcore or other punk forms. They were, of course, more of a death metal band originally.




That chart has other weird things about it. It shows a genre called "power metal" originating in 1976. What is meant by power metal today(dramatic wizard and faerie stuff like Rhapsody and Blind Guardian) in no way existed in 1976.

What TLR said:

I understand all this subgenre stuff but I tend not to care enough to use it. I pretty much stop at grouping everything into doom, black metal, death metal, hardcore and occasionally post metal. Obviously there are bands that don't fit cleanly into any single category but I'm not going to create a new genre for every single band or tiny subset of bands out there.
 
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People always seem to forget about Darkthrone's origins and what they've been doing lately. Circle The Wagons is straight up a crust punk album.



And then there's weird/awesome bands like Vestiges that straddle the lines between black metal, hardcore and doom.

 

Monotremata

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Those first three Darkthrone records are probably my favorite black metal albums period next to Mayhems Deathcrush.
 

phoenix 7

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First, let me say that the graph you posted was neither comprehensive, nor wholly accurate by my reckoning.
I rest my case.

Just kidding. :D

That aside, on to your question.

It's pervasive throughout all of music to add descriptors to the main genre at play based on common patterns associated with a particular sound. Invoking these descriptors let's other people know what to expect from a particular band when writing a review or when seeking bands of a similar sound. It's what prevents you from getting recommendations for various acid rock or noise rock bands when you're looking for british invasion styled rock.
Makes sense. But I do think that the classification thing is taken to a more rigorous, nuanced level with metal than other genres. Metal fans and musicians are almost scientific about the categories. Nothing wrong with that, though.
 

tsar nicholas

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PSA : There's a two-for-one deal on the first Nocturnal Poisoning CD if you get it direct from Conner -- check his Facebook page for details
 
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^ Truly; the classic-era Darkthrone material is pretty much the apex of old-school Norwedish black metal, in my book
I'm the rare weirdo who prefers Burzum to Darkthrone and Mayhem. Filosofem, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and his self-titled album are all classics as far as I'm concerned.
 

tsar nicholas

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I'm the rare weirdo who prefers Burzum to Darkthrone and Mayhem. Filosofem, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and his self-titled album are all classics as far as I'm concerned.
^ "Filosofem" definitely gets the nod for being a seminal work in the black ambient style, no matter what the whole Vikernes issue. Plus the horrible-wonderful fuzz sound on the first track is un@#$%withable. Hard to get more "necro" than the sound of that record.
 

tsar nicholas

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p.s. Conner reports that "98%" of labels and distributors wouldn't take any copies of the 'Other Worlds of the Mind' record. What the snake? I mean, I know roughly nil about the business of selling records these days, but it seems like distributing a high-profile act like Nocturnal Poisoning would be probably profitable, non?
 

Buzzard Luck

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For paving the way to rock forward in this blackened way, A better example couldn't be set than by Ihsahn. Check out albums like After or Eremita, not to mention Angl for fresh approaches to heavy riffs and songs.
In many ways, it's far too late for 'newcomers' to the black metal style.
Simply tremolo picking minor chords no longer really contributes much to the genre...
Meanwhile, the 7/8 string crowd seem to be on to something. A group like Animals as Leaders is going to be the 'classic' future of the electric guitar.
'Ye uttuku spells' sounds great next to 'CAFO' - both tracks contain devilish angst - the key ingredient to great rock music!
 

tsar nicholas

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^ Yeah, Ihsahn is hella creative, no doubt.

Totally disagree that it is 'far too late for newcomers' to black metal. That's like saying it's far too late for newcomers to house music or something. There are always ways to contribute to the pool of work -- I mean, look at all the great doom metal that's come out over the past few years; and the doom style supposedly peaked almost 15 years ago.

I love what Abasi is doing, very clever cat. He really inspired me a lot to break down boundaries in my playing. Pretty far removed from the black metal style though.
 

tsar nicholas

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Brief note on Agalloch :


I didn't really hear of this band until they released their cover of "Kneel to the Cross," after which I was totally hooked. That cut is about five thousand times better than the Sol Invictus original and I was like "holy cao these guys are like super duper good with the whole atmospheric bag." Though I absolutely love their subsequent LPs, I always wished that Haughm would do more of the clean / harmonized singing that he's so adept at, and less rasping, which approach I think yields him a pretty thin tone and is actually my least favorite part of thier sound.


Anybody else feel that way?


p.s. Agalloch (with Aesop Dekker) is one of the best live shows I've ever seen, it's a MUST to catch them if they come through your town
 

Halowords

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Brief note on Agalloch :


I didn't really hear of this band until they released their cover of "Kneel to the Cross," after which I was totally hooked. That cut is about five thousand times better than the Sol Invictus original and I was like "holy cao these guys are like super duper good with the whole atmospheric bag." Though I absolutely love their subsequent LPs, I always wished that Haughm would do more of the clean / harmonized singing that he's so adept at, and less rasping, which approach I think yields him a pretty thin tone and is actually my least favorite part of thier sound.


Anybody else feel that way?



p.s. Agalloch (with Aesop Dekker) is one of the best live shows I've ever seen, it's a MUST to catch them if they come through your town
Yeah, kind of. I'm more a fan of clean vocals in metal (I know, why the @#$% am I here exactly?), so that fits more of my style. However, I sort of like how they blend the two styles, kind of like a Folksy sort of Fear Factory thing. Kind of.

-Cheers
 

Halowords

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It is kind of surreal reading Deafheaven described as Black Metal-inspired Pop music. That said, that almost fits. Like moonshine-infused children's drink or something.

Anyway, on that note, how is (or just is) the Metal (Black Metal, Doom, or heavier music in general) mixing or inspiring Shoegazing or more ambient type of metal? I'm a big fan of Deafheaven's Sunbather I think in part because it blends the heavy sounds with a diverse range of music and moods. I also find myself getting drawn to bands classified as Shoegazing, Post-Rock, Post-Metal, or bands like ISIS, and say something like Jesu, that are able to blend that really hard/heavy sound with some really pretty clean/ambient parts (regardless of the actual classification).

Anyway, I've read about bands moving from more of a Black Metal (or Doom/Death/etc.) metal to more of a Shoegaze sound. Do you see much of that, and if so what are some good examples as far as bands, movement, etc.? I've read about that, however this is still a new thing for me so my examples are both vague and fairly limited.

-Cheers
 
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Deafheaven does it the best and it's hard to find bands doing the exact same sort of thing, but there are a few different avenues you can go down.

Bosse-De-Nage might be the closest thing, although I think they're weirder and harder to pin down.



Wreck and Reference isn't really metal and I don't think there's any guitar in what they do, but they definitely occupy an interesting space between ambient, black metal, doom and shoegaze.



Same for The Body. One of the weirdest, most out there bands but still eminently listenable.



Pinkish Black is actually a local band, and probably the best in Dallas right now. They're more along the lines of Wreck and Reference but they mix in a good deal of psychedelic which is what makes them so interesting.

 




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