I agree with this assessment. I play my Bogner GF45 SL through a closed back 4x10 with 10" Greenbacks. Sounds great on both channels, but if you insist on having Blackface cleans it will come down to speakers. I have actually tried running modeled preamps of Blackface Fenders and Marshall amps from my Helix into the GF45 poweramp and guess what, they don't sound significantly different to the built in preamps. So on that front you could say that yeah, it has a Blackface clean and a Marshall overdrive. But then you are faced with the speaker situation.For the past several years, I have been after the same thing as the OP. I have owned many, many blackface and tweed Fenders, as well as a ‘78 JMP, so I know the sounds well. A couple of years ago, I tried a Redplate Magica and was shocked to learn that a modern channel switcher combo can, in fact, get the Marshall crunch and the blackface clean. HOWEVER, I found that it could not do both equally well through one speaker. The amp came with a British-type Greenback design, and the Marshall side killed through it, but the Fender side just wasn’t there. Then I ran the amp out to one of my old Oxford speakers, and suddenly it was giving me some of the best blackface cleans ever; and this coming from el84 power tubes. And guess what? The Marshall side now sounded like garbage through the scooped American speaker.
Also, I tried for years to get great sounds from OD pedals into the Fenders. It’s decent and acceptable, but not the best it can be. I tried pretty much every cheap and expensive name brand and boutique OD pedal, with varying degrees of mids, and it has never been as good as when running through a British-type of speaker. I’ve heard all of the discussions about running pedals with mids into scooped speakers and all that, and while decent sounds can be had, my experience is that the beautiful, scooped cleans of an American speaker tend to fight against the mids required in a Marshall crunch, whether that crunch is coming from the amp or from a pedal.
The moral of my story: speakers matter more than I ever imagined
Sorry to derail OP question. But i was reading thru your responses in one the SV20 threads. How do you compare the SV20 & the Supersonic? I have the 22 & keen on the SV20, but can't really have both.Fender supersonic does it for me. Fender Cleans, bass man grind thru Van Halen.
The OP says he doesn’t like the “Bogner sound” whatever that is... The Goldfinger is a phenomenal amp though. I see his cleans as more Marshally than Fendery. A bit thicker in the mids which is great for guitar.If you can spend a little more, the Bogner Goldfinger is also a good alternative. One of the sweetest clean platforms I have heard, and a nice Marshall gain channel. The GF Superlead gets a lot of raves for the added '77 mode, but I think any of them would deliver what you want.
i just have never heard a bogner that i liked, they all sound very hi-fi to me, which is how i would describe the bogner sound, ymmvThe OP says he doesn’t like the “Bogner sound” whatever that is... The Goldfinger is a phenomenal amp though. I see his cleans as more Marshally than Fendery. A bit thicker in the mids which is great for guitar.
Two different tools imo. The 22 is what I play in wedding bands and can cover Jazz standards, pop thru GnR and the sv20 nails classic rock. The sv20 doesn't have the pure clean headroom that I need for certain events. I have both, but I find I can pull off any song with the 22. I prefer to use the SV20 for classic rock gigs tho. It inspires me and I interact with my pickup selector and guitar knobs more than I do with a multi channel amp.Sorry to derail OP question. But i was reading thru your responses in one the SV20 threads. How do you compare the SV20 & the Supersonic? I have the 22 & keen on the SV20, but can't really have both.
Yeah, I realized that afterward, but for me the GF kind of sits tonally a little outside of the standard Bogner soundThe OP says he doesn’t like the “Bogner sound” whatever that is...
I tend to think of the cleans as a higher headroom tweed sound, which is to say the same core DNA as Marshall but a bit more sag and with some more tweakability.The Goldfinger is a phenomenal amp though. I see his cleans as more Marshally than Fendery. A bit thicker in the mids which is great for guitar.
I would not think to characterize the GF as having a hi-fi sound. The clean sounds a bit like the Mesa LSS if you have heard one of those (high headroom tweed Deluxe), and the drive channel is very plexi / JCM800.i just have never heard a bogner that i liked, they all sound very hi-fi to me, which is how i would describe the bogner sound, ymmv
I think that’s a great point!imo the big question is gonna be speakers/cab. like a blackface fender through a closed back greenback cab doesn't sound so "fendery" and a plexi through an open cab with JBLs isn't all that "marshally" i think thats why people get so frustrated trying to get both sounds in one amp.... not only is it hard to get one amp that does both sounds its hard to get a cab that does both.
i would really ask yourself if maybe its better to just use two amps as a channel switcher a la eric johnson. its really not all that impractical, especially if you are used to 100 watt heads with a 4x12 cab. just figure out how much volume you need.
small stages/clubs/recording: - princeton or deluxe reverb and an 18 watter, DSL combo, origin, etc
medium sized venues: deluxe or pro reverb and a jtm45 bluesbreaker combo
no limit: twin or super reverb and 1959slp
other thing i would also consider is one of those hybrid open/close mesa cabs and load the closed side with greenbacks and the open half with jbls or something similar and run two heads into them with a head switcher. then you can use a plexi head and an old fender silverface head.