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Blues soloing - the OTHER pentatonic minor scales

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Roger Axetrample, May 24, 2011.

  1. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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  2. Phreekfuse

    Phreekfuse Member

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  3. myaudiodna

    myaudiodna Member

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    Absolutely love that faux slide technique! Definitely gonna incorporate that into my solos.
     
  4. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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    That's a cool vid! Scott has all this stuff down, not just for pentatonics but for all kinds of scales and arpeggios. What he can do harmonically is just plain sick!!

    R
     
  5. Rumblur

    Rumblur Member

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    Scott Henderson has chops for days... sadly, he has all the soul of a teletubbie. Why do guys think "chops" equals "blues" ??

    Albert King had few chops, but he was a phenomenal blues player.

    Thanks for the lesson, I look forward to absorbing it.
     
  6. Sigmund Floyd

    Sigmund Floyd Supporting Member

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    Why does the shape work at the B (7th fret) position? Not getting that...
     
  7. gennation

    gennation Member

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    One way to look at it is A Dorian, then the B Minor Pent is a direct subset scale of A Dorian (or if you name your patterns it would be a subset of B Phyrgian).

    The A Min Pent, B Min Pent, and E Minor Pent are all direct subsets of A Dorian

    In the example it's shown over A7, or A Mixolydian if you will. In that case B Minor Pent is a direct subset of A Mixolydian (or if you name your patterns it would be a subset of B Aeolian).

    For A7 though, A Min Pent is not a direct subset of the A Mixo, but B Min Pent and E Min Pent are direct subsets of A Mixo. With a few bluesy bends in A Min Pent you can make it work over A Mixo pretty easy, just be cautious of all the those blues bends in B Min Pent and E Min Pent, they don't have the same effect.
     
  8. Cb

    Cb Member

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    Good stuff, Roger! I'm looking fwd to the Youtube demos too.

    Cb
     
  9. russ6100

    russ6100 Member

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    Nice. :facepalm

    Actually, Scott's a member of the forum, so maybe you can school him on how to add some of that much needed soul he lacks...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  10. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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    Thank you!!
    Roger
     
  11. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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    I don't know what he meant by that. For me, Scott is one of the ONLY guys that has both loads of soul, a personal sound, chops and extensive harmonical knowledge! He's one of a kind!!
    Roger
     
  12. Sigmund Floyd

    Sigmund Floyd Supporting Member

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    Thanks guys. As with most of this stuff as I learn, I get parts and other parts hopefully become clearer in time and practice.
    Teletubbies have kind and gentle souls anyways...
     
  13. Swain

    Swain Member

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    " Why do guys think "chops" equals "blues" ?? "

    Ouch. Thanks for that!


    " Albert King had few chops, but he was a phenomenal blues player.
    "

    Did you ever see/hear him play in person? He had some serious chops, IMO. But, I do respect your opinion here. I just disagree.
     
  14. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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    Yep.
    Anyone who can REALLY play the blues has some chops. Not chops in 100 note/second way but in the amount of control they have over their instrument.
    R
     
  15. chronowarp

    chronowarp Member

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    I'm really not a fan of this method at all. Is it just me?

    I can appreciate the concept, but I feel conceptually it doesn't really come across as something I'd want to invest time in or work on. I think it's distracting since most guitarists are inherently glued to the standard min pent shape based on the I. If you are just transposing that shape to get upper extensions, but you're presenting it like a player can just move it up and sort of operate in the same mode of playing ... it seems to defeat the purpose, because playing "blues licks" in those shapes isn't going to do anyone any good. And if you're going to tell the player not to operate like that in the shape he is already glued to, then it doesn't seem to be all that more productive than simply exploring a different method that may be more efficient and achieve the same results.

    Hmm...Maybe I should put 20 hours into it before I judge, but this is just my thinking straight off the bat.
     
  16. teleman55

    teleman55 Member

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    Cool! I'm an old Chicago blues guy and have probably played all those scales and more but maybe not. I've always tried to bring an edge to the blues. I put that on favorites and someday I'm gonna pull it up and pretend I'm a kid who don't know.
    Thanks and God Bless Ya!
     
  17. Phreekfuse

    Phreekfuse Member

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    ummmm.... yeah.... uhhhh..... ok......

    dude.... umm....

    WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU >.<" ???

    Aside from that^ factor :\ !! I always thought that the regular stereotype was chops = metal shredder guys... But seriously soul of a teletubbie o_O ??
    Dude you must have the soul of barbie man :\ !! I mean i bet everyone turns pink and each note becomes a pinch harmonic when you play :\ !!
     
  18. Roger Axetrample

    Roger Axetrample Member

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    Hi,
    here's the thing. I was not suggesting to play the same blues licks in the different positions. Because of the bends involved some of those are gonna sound not so good, as stated in the lesson.

    I'm pointing out in which keys you can play the same shape (a set of tones rather than a bunch of licks) and get a completely different sound on top of the chords while still being 'inside' harmonically. For this you'll have to create new licks! And those WILL sound bluesy because of their pentatonic nature.

    These sounds will be new to some of the traditional blues guys, but than again, Jimi used these (listen to 'Red House' and 'Born under a bad sign') as did Stevie.

    Hope this makes it more clear.
    R
     
  19. Rumblur

    Rumblur Member

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    I dont want this to turn into a thread jack, but I'll elaborate on my earlier post.

    I like Scott Henderson's playing, let's get that clear. I think he's a techno-wizard on par with that guy from Georgia that played the Tele with 5 pickups...

    There are few players that are that knowledgeable and still convey passion or draw me in. Eric Johnson has done it, but not very often. Vai and Satriani do nothing for me sound wise, but I enjoy WATCHING them play. Same goes for Neil Peart - I care nothing for drums, but appreciate his prowess.

    The techy players (of which I consider Henderson one) are like draftsman - clean, crisp lines that are exactly where they ought to be. They are blueprints without flaw, emotion or passion. They are cold and razor sharp. They can repeat their lines every night with stopwatch accuracy. They rarely miss, mess up or fail.

    The feely players (mostly blues, but all genres) are artists, fighter pilots, baseball pitchers, quarterbacks - they may be technical as hell but fly seat of the pants, with passion in every stroke... they make mistakes, they crash and burn. But they do so with a flare. When they win, they win big.... whether it's SRV or Brett Favre. They dont even know what they are doing most of the time, it just flows from their soul....

    The truly rarest of the rare are those that fall somewhere in between... and it is a very short list. Off the top of my head :

    Jerry Reed
    Hank Garland
    SRV
    Rik Emmett

    OK, sorry for the off-the-wall missive, but I felt like explaining my points. That's the last I'll look at this, PM me if necessary.
     
  20. chronowarp

    chronowarp Member

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    I associate things with sounding "bluesy" based on how they interact against the chord. Obvious the staple here is the variable 3rd and 7th on a dom7. You aren't really getting that sound when you're moving these shapes around.

    How can you make something sound "bluesy" when it isn't reacting against the chord in a bluesy way? I get this sort of knee jerk reaction when I hear that type of phrasing moved over something that isn't meant to interact the same way over the chord, and yes, you're right, the phrasing has to change completely in order to make it work and sound good. So that's what raised my question:

    If I have to change my phrasing and entire conception of this shape I know so well in order to generate and use these notes that are basically the upper extensions of the chord...why use this shape at all? The only convenience is the visual, which is already ingrained in my mind, but it's also counterproductive to have a visual and all this muscle memory associated with a shape that I will constantly have to fight to overcome.

    What makes this approach more useful or interesting than just thinking in terms of arpeggios over the chord that outline the upper extensions? If I want upper extensions why not just take Am7 vamp, and superimpose G (b7, 9, 11) or D (11, 13, R) triads over the top? Seems easier to visualize and less prone to muscle memory resulting in phrases that sound goofy?

    Basically, I'm just challenging you to convince me (and possibly others) how this system of organizing sounds is more effective or simple than any of the other approaches that are out there.
     

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