Bogner Ecstasy at 1/2 price...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by seventn, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. DEMENTED

    DEMENTED Supporting Member

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    I am gonna chime in here and say...to the chagrin of XTC owners everywhere, that I borrowed my buddys XTC because I thought for sure it would be the ultimate amp for me. After a week or so of tweaking around with it I can say it's too much money and didn't live up to it's hype for me. I am glad I got try one out before buying. I have been on the earch for my "ultimate" amp about 6 years now. I have tried or owned: Soldano, Marshall, Bogner, Aiken, VHT, Fender Peters, Roccaforte, Voodoo, ToneKing, Two-Rock, Bludotone, Fuchs, Fargen, Naylor, Gries, Dr.Z, Carr, Rivera, Ceriatone, etc, etc. Sadly, "close enough" to your ideal tone might be all you can do...at least that's how I'm feeling.
     
  2. JamesPeters

    JamesPeters Member

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    Ideals are a funny thing. Perfection is more of an expectation than something which can be realized. It takes an open mind to accept the fact we may not find the exact sound we're after, but we can find another sound which is just as good in a somewhat different way.

    Also, some people tend to forget that the guitar is still a critical part of the sound. Pickups are important of course, but each individual guitar sounds different, some a lot more than others. Sometimes all it takes is going to a music store and trying 20 guitars in an afternoon to find the solution to getting the sound you want.
     
  3. carlygtr56

    carlygtr56 Senior Member

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    I got a 101B last month. I owned 2 101B's in the early 90's I wasn't a huge fan of. I could never dial them in how I wanted, etc.

    This new one seems different. Same tonality, but more upfront and foward sounding and more available gain on Ch3. Clean ch sounds GREAT. The Blue ch is a given and Ch 3 rips.

    I was able to easily dial it in to what I like. Just got a straight V-30 loaded Bogner cab to go with it.
    A few clips in my sig were done literlly out of the box.
     
  4. mude

    mude Silver Supporting Member

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    As a side note, he said he wanted a combo. I have seen them, but an XTC in combo form seems pretty rare (and pretty heavy).

    Count me in the group that thinks the XTC is a great amp. I have not had one for a few years, but I have had several in the past (101B, 101A, 101 Classic, 100B) and they have all been cool amps.

    There are lots of great amps that could compete in the category I suppose, but if the XTC sounds really grab you, wait and buy a used one (but again, I think the combo thing could be tough).

    I definitely think the Eganator would be worth a look and maybe a CAE100 (although again the combo form is VERY rare).

    Evan.
     
  5. mude

    mude Silver Supporting Member

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    I might also consider a used Guytron FV (again, probably could only get a head although you could have a cab built of course for any of these). Should be able to find a used one for comfortably under $2K and some good tones to be had.

    Evan.
     
  6. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex Member

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    I had a xtc 101b and it was a great amp, I'm really sorry I sold it.
     
  7. macmax77

    macmax77 Supporting Member

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    The best sound i heard was at MAE music, Blue channel, Bogner XTC
     
  8. thorny64

    thorny64 Member

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    I would really like to know people that have compared the XTC and V3 side by side. I am not afraid to give my opinion on the parts I have experienced.

    I repair amps, and have for years. I see very few carvins around here, no V3s yet, but I have worked on a Legacy, some X amps, and so forth. The Legacy that was brought in sounded terrible, but I retubed it and if I remember correctly had to adjust the bias so that it would bias correctly. It sounded completely different, totally better than before. It is a good amp.

    I have owned a shiva combo until just recently - and only sold it because of financial reasons. It is the finest two channel amp I have played. Mine was a 2x12 combo, with V30s, open back, reverb option, 60w 6L6 model. It was FANTASTIC. I don't understand the "not high gain" part either - it definitely is high-gain. It just isn't the Uberschall or Mesa rectumfire high gain. But the clean is very clean in the amp, almost twin like clean. The reverb is to die for, and the distortion can be really wicked yet retain its definition. Different sounding than the Ecstasy.

    The Ecstasy is awesome as well, Lots of juicy in-between tones and does do a bit more of the high gain thing than the Shiva - a different kind of high gain. Also, the clean is not as clean. However, with all the tonal options, it also is one of the best amps I have played.

    I have not played the carvin, but the ones i have played have been reliable. I would say the Bogners are as reliable as they come - even better than Carvin. I have only had one Bogner in for repair for anything besides tubes and bias - and it was abused (physically fallen on the power switch and busted it off - nothing would survive that type of hit).

    Marshall Fans - you may want to look away, and please no flame wars! This is my experience with repairing newer Marshalls. I would NOT recommend new marshalls. I like their tone, but as a guy that repairs them their build quality is in the crapper! It is terrible. They have lots of problems, and unless you are a repair center they won't sell you parts directly. And I get them for all sorts of problems. They have tons of the cheapest plastic parts, connectors everywhere, wave-soldered boards, the cheapest components on the wave soldered boards, and sockets, jacks, pots mounted to boards. The result is they fail, and fail often. If you love yours, count yourself lucky. Some of them DO sound good, but don't ever buy one because they are a nightmare to work on and that is what is going to happen to them. They are built more like a Crate - Peavey and Fender build quality is a notch above. They are expensive for such poor quality. The classic marshall amps are awesome and reliable. I have a JMP myself that I love. I also have a JVM on the bend right now - what a nightmare. The reissues that are built like the old designs are good quality - nothing wrong with them. Again, sounds pretty good, but you don't get the quality you pay for.

    With Bogner, it is really expensive, but you get what you pay for. It is HUGELY important to put the right tubes in a Bogner to get it to perform correctly - especially the preamp tubes. They are designed around the Chinese preamp tubes, and must have them to sound right. Use the tubes Bogner recommends, putting other ones in there and the amp won't sound nearly as good as it should. Most people that have a Bogner that does not sound as good as it used to has changed the tubes to other stuff and jacked the tone all up. I do use different power tubes than are recommended, but I always use the Chinese preamp tubes and have tried about a zillion different ones and it to be certain. The best almost sounded as good as the cheap Chinese tubes. They go through preamp tubes pretty well - because the new Chinese tubes sound pretty good but don't always have a great deal of longevity. But they are cheap enough to have a bunch of spares (you should anyway) in case one gets noisy or microphonic.

    Now, how does the Carvin compare to the XTC? I would really like to know this. I also wonder how the bias is done on the V3 (is it a "fixed bias" that can be adjusted by a pot?). I wonder if it will sound as night and day differently better like the Legacy did for me after a bit of tweaking? I would really like to get one in to try. So far, I like the build quality of every Carvin product I have came across, but I do not always like their tone. But they keep getting better and better, and I don't have as much access to them here unless I buy them myself. I just would love to see someone compare the two side by side.

    I haven't played or worked on an Egnator either. I hear they are nice but since i have not had time with them or looked underneath the hood I can't really comment. I would like to try one.

    Sorry, this is just my opinion and not done to irk the Marshall fans. I love classic marshalls, and like the tone of some of the new ones. But the build quality isn't good at all on the new ones and they are a nightmare to work on. They are almost disposable amps, and they are way too expensive to be that.

    Thorny
     
  9. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    Here's my 2 cents... I've already mailed the original poster on this. I own a Bogner Ecstasy 101B and have used it as my main amp for over 4 years now, with the Bogner Oversized 2x12 cab. Now I never thought it'd ever play second fiddle to another amp for me EVER until I picked up my HERO Combat 50 and had the RP-1 Brit Mod on it.

    In a nutshell - it's cut from the same cloth as the Bogner Ecstasy tone wise, but with more clarity. Running the Combat 50 through the HERO oversized 4x12, to me has the best high gain sound I've encountered thus far. Here are the amps that I've either tried out in GREAT detail and/or owned (to give you some idea of where I'm coming from):

    * Bogner Ecstasy 101B
    * Bogner Uberschall
    * Bogner Shiva
    * Carvin Legacy
    * Diezel Einstein
    * Egnater Mod 50 (with SL/SL2, MHG, COD mods)
    * Egnater Tourmaster
    * Marshall JVM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmTr-6Xh9fE)
    * Marshall DSL 100
    * Cornford RK-100
    * Mesa Boogie Stiletto
    * Fender EVH 5150 III
    * Peavey JSX
    * Custom Audio Electronics OD-100

    There are probably more, but these are the ones I really got into. While most of the above amps are really great sounding, I'd still pick the HERO Combat 50 with the RP-1 Brit MOD if I had to buy one all over again.

    Cheers
    Raj
     
  10. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    Thorny - "how does the Carvin Legacy compare to the XTC?"

    It doesn't. Although I liked Legacy much better than the V3.
     
  11. se7en

    se7en Senior Member

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    Any chance you can record a clip of the Hero? I've been dead set on purchasing an XTC 101b.
     
  12. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    I'm working on the sound and video clips for the HERO Combat 50 (RP-1 Modded) as we speak... hopefully have them done by Monday. I'll see if I can A/B it next to my Bogner XTC as well.

    I have some clips of my Bogner Ecstasy on my MySpace tunes : "Sam's Town" and the poorly mixed "Mayhem"...

    www.myspace.com/rajphanseguitar

    Cheers
    Raj
     
  13. Lution

    Lution Member

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    I'm curious to also hear your Hero amp. They are just a few hours south of me in Colorado Springs.

    I didn't see any prices on their site but I'm guessing they're in the $2K range. What exactly is this mod and how much does it cost?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    Lution...

    Before answering your question, it's important to note that the Combat 50 is a 3-channel head. Each channel has a push/pull volume pot which changes the voicing of that channel.

    The RP-1 Brit Mod is a variation from the stock model in the following ways:

    * The overall tone of the amp is a touch darker from the stock model.

    * Channel 1 (Clean) is bigger and bolder sounding than the stock. This is done through kicking up the gain a touch. The Pull-feature kicks up the gain, should you wish to go for that blues - 'shot glass' sound. (This channel sounds superb on its own and especially killer through an XOTIC BB Preamp). It's a lot cleaner and bigger sounding than my Bogner's Clean channel and definitely wins hands down.

    * Channel 2 and Channel 3 are more consistently voiced than the stock Combat 50 / 100. Channel 2 is largely untouched, but sounds a lot chunkier now that some of the original excess brightness is eliminated. Pulling the volume on Channel 2 acts like a 'bright' switch.

    * On the stock model, Channel 3 has a thinner, more modern kind of high gain - now it sounds like boutique Brit Gain Heaven. Channel 3 now sounds like a hot-rodded, flame throwing version of Channel 2, much in the same fashion as the XTC's relationship between the Blue and Red Channel - HOWEVER the Combat 50 does not share its EQ between 2 and 3.

    * That's about it. The mods are to do with the tone and tone only. Take it from me - it was co-designed by a true Bogner afficonado, who's VERY picky about his tone! ;) - Cost-wise, I don't think it's any more than the stock model, as long as you tell them in advance - but give them a shout + they'll tell you more!

    Anyway - please feel free to shoot me a message if you have any more questions! By the way, I'm listening to your stuff on MySpace and it sounds great! I definitely hear some RUSH in there... my favorite band!

    Cheers!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    MAN I LOVE THEIR CAB SO MUCH!!!!!
     
  15. SvenHock

    SvenHock Supporting Member

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    Looks to be a nice amp you got there Wolf. I'm a Bogner Ecstasy OS 2x12 lover/player and cant see changing. I know we all say this but, I have never been happier with my rig. I've had it since last summer and it works for me.

    I have to also agree with the statements concerning the newer Marshalls. I wouldnt buy a new one even if I was a multi-millionaire. They are not reliable and the JVM I tried could not be dialed in by my hands. I'm getting to the point where I might be weeding out my Marshall collection.
     
  16. se7en

    se7en Senior Member

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    Awesome, looking forward to the clips. Actually, I had come across your myspace page in the past and really dug the tones and playing. How much does a Hero Combat 50 go for?
     
  17. hdiddy

    hdiddy Supporting Member

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    I had 2 6l6 shiva combos; Love the first one, sold to get a 101B, didnt like; got another, older model; did not like the sound; Then I got a 101A
    Love it have an open back smaller 2x12 with green backs; Played it last night with a 58 LP junior and my new fulltone TTE, It was the sound of angels singing

    Get a 101A, Has a great clean channel
     
  18. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    Thanks Se7en! I really want to get some more clips up there, but my record is just taking stinking forever! LOL...

    Price-wise, the Combat 50 is a LOT more affordable than the Ecstasy. I'll find out what their latest prices are and let you know! As an endorser, I can probably get an additional discount... I'll let you know!

    Cheers

    ---------

    Hiddy,

    Yeah, I was never big on the Bogner Shiva at all, and couldn't reconcile or justify its price tag. The Bogner Duende, however sounds really great, albeit a tad on the pricey side. It looks like Bogner has now become a cult-hero / household name (particularly with Line6 capitalizing on the name) so you can expect to drop a few more dollars because of that. That being said - IMHO The Ecstasy will forever be on top of the high-gain stack, with maybe two or three other amps. They really did great on that amp!

    I've not heard the Ecstasy 101A, however I've heard awesome things about it! How does it differ from the 101B, besides the improved clean channel???
     
  19. Wolf Static

    Wolf Static Member

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    Sven - I really liked the OD-1 and OD-2 channels on the JVM, but only on the amber setting with the EQ set a certain way... an awful waste of the other 10 channels! Also, at high volumes the JVM just couldn't keep it together. It struggled to cut through the mix, even with my Bogner 2x12. Turning it up was deafening, while re-EQing it made it sound like a different amp! Ah well...

    I'm stoked that you have your rig dialled in! I don't see myself parting company with my XTC in a huge hurry, simply because everybody who sold their Bogners live to regret it! LOL... so whatever you do - hang on to yours! Anyway - The Combat 50 is a lot more convenient to use than the XTC, however with more flexibility on the channels, a master volume, a boost volume, MIDI and independent EQ on all 3 channels.

    Tone-wise, the XTC really does it for me, however flexibility + features + the tone after the Brit Mod on the Combat 50 definitely edged it
     
  20. reddgeetarzan

    reddgeetarzan Supporting Member

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    I'll tell another limitation to this is the weight- I had an XTC combo and that SOB weighed over 100 pounds! No kidding, that thing was a back breaker- got rid of that one in a hurry!

    I always joked when I had to put it in the trunk that it was good practice in the event that I ever joined the mafia :D

    The Peavey stuff is unbelievably heavy too. You might want to consider a seperate head/cab setup......just my 2 cents.
    If not, I hope you have good health insurance!!!

    Good luck......
     

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