Bogner Shiva EL34 (no reverb) vs. Bogner Ecstasy Classic

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by TaronKeim, Jun 19, 2006.


  1. TaronKeim

    TaronKeim Member

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    I'm sure this has come up before... but aside for the third channel of the Ecstasy, the superior (agreed upon by most) clean of the Shiva and the extra gain and tone shaping options available on the Classic, is there REALLY that much of a difference?

    From what I've gathered they are both dark, with the Shiva having a little less low-mid emphasis and a tighter bottom than the Ecstasy. The Ecstasy having more bloom, sustain and liquid feel to it, more compression and low-mids. Correct so far?

    I am interested in both amps... and am trading my Germino LoVo Lead 55 for an Uberschall as I type this. I'll also be ordering a Duende and a Metropolis (no reverb) to run as a stereo rig.

    So in your opinions and experiences... which amp would fill the space between the Duende/Metropolis - Uberschall gap.

    -TJK
     
  2. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    The are very, very, very different. I had both. Still have the Shiva.

    Best (and shortest) way to describe the tone differences, is that the Shiva is 70s to early 80s rock. Overdriven, to highly overdriven tones.

    The Ecstasy Classic, in general, is much more late 80s sounding. Tricked-out Marshall-ish. It has the lower gain Plexi channel, and you can set the Blue channel lower. Nonetheless, the "spirit" of the amp is much higher gain Marshall.

    Another way I like to compare is this: The Ecstasy Classic is a high-gain amp. The Shiva is not.
     
  3. hamrhed1

    hamrhed1 Member

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    I also had both, they are very different.

    IMO the gain channel on the my Shiva made my Ecstasy 101B sound "buzzy" and compressed by comparison. I always ended up plugging into the Shiva so I sold the Ecstasy. The Shiva produces perfect Aerosmith, Black Crowes sorts of tones. The Ecstasy has lots of switches and modes to tailor the tone (a la Mark IV), but I didn't like lots of those tones. With the Shiva, you can't make it sound bad no matter how you turn the (few)knobs. Hard to imagine a better classic-rock amp. The Shiva also (IMO) has a much better clean channel.

    There is plenty of gain/sustain available with the Shiva although the Ecstasy has more.

    The only down-side of the Shiva (the special effects loop cable issue) has been solved in the new Shiva's as well as adding an adjustable boost level.
     
  4. RSRD

    RSRD Member

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    It's good to see another NoVa Shiva user!

    I've had mine for almost 3 years and it's the perfect amp for me. I agree it's hard to make this amp sound bad.

    In the end, I would say it comes down to whether you really put more emphasis on the clean or the high gain. As good as the classic clean might be compared to the xtc or uber, it's not going to touch the shiva. Conversly, you can jack the shiva gain to the max, but it won't growl as fierce as the classic.

    Good luck,

    Thomas
     
  5. BrentSP

    BrentSP Member

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    Theres a simple mod with a bit of soldering to get it to growl like the Classic though and with lots more gain.

    Only thing I absolutely HATE is the shiva's efx loop. To this day I still haven't been able to get it to work with any of my effects. I've used the shiva cable with a bunch of different values to. I'm trying to reframe from adding a send level pot as I rather not drill a hole in the chassis.

    Classic/101B are great amps and at this time I'd rather my old XTC back but I think the shiva's loop is just driving me crazy right now.
     
  6. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    Care to elaborate on the mod? Do you have the schematics?

    I was peeking around the chassis last night. Certainly no Marshall Plexi layout.
     
  7. BrentSP

    BrentSP Member

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    Bogner puts parts in there that do absolutely nothing (just a few caps and resistors) why they do this.....I can only guess. But the lead channel is 3 gain stages and is 33k/470pf marshall tone stack and the clean is 100k/250pf Fender stone stack. PM sent
     
  8. jamison162

    jamison162 Member

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    How loud is the EL34 Shiva, rated at 80 watts gees. The Orange Rocker 30 is 2xEL34 and is only rated 30 watts. I've always wanted a Shiva but have been hesitant because I feel it may be too much.
     
  9. BrentSP

    BrentSP Member

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    Its about as loud as a 100 watt head its not much difference at all. Just has a bit less head room.
     
  10. hamrhed1

    hamrhed1 Member

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    The Shiva has a great master volume so that it can be played at reasonable volumes around the house. Conversely, a few minutes wide-open at waist level and your fish won't swim anymore. Very loud.
     
  11. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    I've owned both amps in question and kept the Shiva long after I sold the Classic.

    I actually sold my Shiva to get a Classic.... and then sold the Classic and bought another Shiva.

    The opinions stated above mirror my experience.
     
  12. s_brink

    s_brink Member

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    I agree with both statements! I've been playing a EL34 Shiva (no 'verb) since 2000 in small clubs and big outdoor events. The MV is great at keeping most of the personality of the tone even when it's set just over the zero mark.
     
  13. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    Best MV of any amp I've ever had. Period.
     
  14. 6AM

    6AM Supporting Member

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    I've owned an Ecstasy 101b and Classic and I've played a few Shivas. The Shiva, is a far more toneful amp in my opinion. If Bogner was able to take the Shiva, and add the gain channel of an Uberschall as a third channel, that would truly be ECSTASY! As it stands the Ecstasy is more just mediocre.
     
  15. TaronKeim

    TaronKeim Member

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    Thanks for all the replies fellas!

    -TJK
     
  16. Madsman

    Madsman Member

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    I just got my Ecstasy Classic today. You guys are making me sad. :(

    LOL I tried just about every channel switcher on the market before deciding on this one, and I am sure it's all down to how you play and what you play. Different strokes for different folks. The Shiva is an awesome amp. But the 2 amps are just not very similar overall, and I would think that the features and overall tones from the amps would be what help you make the decision.
     
  17. s_brink

    s_brink Member

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    Hey, enjoy it!

    It's exactly about a 'fit' thing more than one amp over another. I've had guys play my Shiva and shrug their shoulders and say 'I like my ____ better.'. Other players really take to it. I've been able to make every Matchless amp I've tried sound really bad (to me). But I love the tone other folks get out of them.

    The Shiva just seems to hide some of my shortcomings and makes me sound better than I probably have a right to.
     
  18. AlexRude

    AlexRude Member

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    Well having just read all your posts I have to say that the difference between these amps lies almost entirely in the players hands and the style of music they make. In my band ATOM STRANGE, we play a kind of hard rock with a proggy/grungey vibe to it. Both of these amps have their place in context to my band. I own both an XTC Classic as well as a Shiva with EL 34s and have used them both with a variety of Les Pauls, V's, Teles and Strats to record my band's 2 albums with fantastic results. I love both amps and they are different but I tend to use the Shiva for gigs where I can't bring a 4x12 cab (my Shiva is a 1x12 combo w/reverb and the newer fx loop). I still feel that the XTC is way more versatile with all it's tone options and I don't quite get everyone's opinion that the clean channel on the Shiva as being superior. The clean channel on the XTC Classic is wonderful. It's got all the Fender mojo that you can ask for except for the lack of the reverb:JAM. The other 2 channels also sound really accurate when being described as "Marshally" including the blue channel with the Plexi option. I have to say that it smokes my original 50 watt and 100 watt plexis and ended up not using the vintage Marshalls for recording in favor of the Bogners. And the XTC Classic still has that open woody tone that you can't get in the regular XTCs which is actually why I paid more for it! I sold some Mesa Triple Recs (also really nice amps with plenty of versatility though you definitely need to sit and spend some time tweaking them to achieve what you want if you have an ear and aren't just going for the generic metal sound) to get the XTC and have never looked back. That being said some people just don't need the kind of gain or versatility that the XTC offers and are just pleased as punch with 2 channels and a boost! In my case the extras that the XTC offers is essential to really creating the dynamics that my band requires. I tend to just strip it down for smaller venues when I use the Shiva but I am not complaining! I love them both!
     
  19. DonW

    DonW Velocity Town Angel Silver Supporting Member

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    My 2X12 Shiva combo is loaded with KT88's @ 90 watts. Nothing I've ever played comes close to the tone rolling out of this monster. The tone and harmonic range is so full it's like a 3D experience. My SigX, Marshall JMP are fine amps as well but just don't compare to the fullness of the Bogner.
     
  20. tritone 6

    tritone 6 Silver Supporting Member

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    Some of the things written here about the Ecstasy really surprise me. I owned an XTC and a good friend of mine owned a shiva. They are different amps, but are BOTH amazing. The XTC is one of the most versatile amps i have ever played, and there are all kinds of great cleans, classic rock, blues to metal in that amp. I wouldnt even consider it a High gain amp compared to other high gain amps. I'm just amazed at what some people hear.
     

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