Boomerang III vs. Pigtronix Infinity Looper

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Sir Douglas T, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. dagordon

    dagordon Member

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    So I've been on a quest to find a looper pedal that meets the simple requirement that it sounds good (both dry and when engaged) and so far this quest has been fruitless. I don't really need all the bells and whistles that pedals like the Infinity or Boomerang have -- just want the basic looping functionality -- but am willing to pay pretty much anything to get a pedal that doesn't mess with my sound, which I've gone to great lengths to dial in just how I want it...

    The Infinity looper is the closest pedal I've found that meets this requirement. I had a Boomerang and didn't like what it did even to my dry tone, perhaps because of the lack of analog dry.

    The problem is that the Infinity is introducing a pretty significant amount of noise into my rig, even when not engaged and on unity gain. I've tried both the stock power adapter as well as my Voodoo Lab isolated power supply and I get the same white noise / hiss.

    There are a couple other reports of this on this thread: here and here but no word on how or if they were resolved.

    I sent the pedal in to Pigtronix for service, and David Koltai got in touch with me and was very nice about it, said they'd spent time inspecting it and comparing it with other brand new units and the amount of noise it's making is normal for the design / price point of this pedal. He said that to design a pedal that doesn't make this amount of noise would cost much more.

    Other than the couple people referenced above, is no one else really experiencing this noise and annoyed by it?

    It's pretty surprising to me that with all the loopers on the market no one has made one that isn't sonically compromised in some way. Every one I've tried has some issue. E.g., the TC Ditto seemed promising, and the dry sound was actually perfectly fine, but the second I'd engage the looper my tone became noticeably digital and unpleasant.

    Anyone have ideas for modding the Infinity to reduce this noise issue?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  2. Pigtronix

    Pigtronix Member

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  3. Telecasteur

    Telecasteur Member

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    From your blog post http://www.pigtronix.com/2014/12/infinity-2-0-release-candidate-2-build-152/

    NOTE: To accurately track all MIDI Clocks, the Infinity requires MIDI Clock signals to be present for up-to 1-minute, without changes, before accuracy is guaranteed; starting recording via MIDI Start as soon as the MIDI Clock is enabled can result in degraded synchronization performance.

    Does this mean that I would have to let my Roland TR-8 drum machine "play" for a minute, without altering the BPM, before I can record with the Infinity and properly MIDI sync? Will this ever be fixed? Does the Boomerang III and EHX 45000 have this same limitation?
     
  4. Pigtronix

    Pigtronix Member

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    With a decent clock source like your Roland TR-8, the Infinity will sync within 2-3 measures.

    Precision looping using a MIDI clock presents a huge challenge due to MIDI jitter (clock instability) present to varying degrees in all hardware drum machines, DAW interfaces, sequencers, etc. The Infinity now uses an active MIDI sync algorithm that actually tracks and corrects for MIDI jitter that is coming from the clock source. This process accommodates for the huge variance in the quality of MIDI clocks used over the past 30+ years and allows the Infinity Looper to accurately sync for (hours / days / weeks) with pretty much any hardware MIDI clock source. A good way to think about this "active MIDI sync" is to think of it as essentially "filtering" the dirty MIDI clock. This filtering process takes time, depending on how bad the clock is.
     
    Javiceres likes this.
  5. aisling

    aisling Silver Supporting Member

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    For those of us who aren't as technologically proficient, it would be great to see a video/tutorial on the pigtronix site showing the interaction between the infinity and a software sequencer. I can't seem to get it to synch with reason 8.1.
     
  6. Pigtronix

    Pigtronix Member

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    Really it is dead simple to sync the Infinity to any MIDI source:

    Plug MIDI OUT from your clock source (DAW / Drum Machine / Sequencer) to the MIDI IN on the Infinity Looper. Once MIDI clock is being transmitted, the ARM light on the looper will blink on the downbeat of every measure. Everything is automatic, no menus, settings etc.

    Advanced MIDI settings can be changed within the Infinity PC/MAC Application

    Getting your DAW / Sequencer / Drum Machine to spit out MIDI clock is dependent on the settings for that particular device.
     
  7. aisling

    aisling Silver Supporting Member

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    My bad, I forgot to set up the infinity as a device on my motu express. I'll retry.
     
  8. corbetta

    corbetta Member

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    Does anybody else have the switches induce a soft "pop" when trying to loop a seamless drone? What I usually do with other loopers is record a short empty loop, go straight into overdub, and fade in a drone over consecutive overdubs. The Infinity sounds like it records everything smoothly, but as soon as I close the overdub with the appropriate switch it seems to record a tiny "pop" that then repeats for every loop iteration. This happens both with the Click Killer off and on.

    Any help would be appreciated...going to install the latest firmware tomorrow as well to see if it helps.
     
  9. cbm

    cbm Silver Supporting Member

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    By "appropriate switch" do you mean the Undo external switch? If not, yeah, you'll double your chances to get a pop.
     
  10. codetocontra

    codetocontra Member

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    Does the TR8 output MIDI clock? I read the manual and only saw that it accepts MIDI clock, but does not output. Am I wrong?
     
  11. corbetta

    corbetta Member

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    I use Loop 1 to start recording, Undo to go straight into overdub (as I overdub, the loop plays back seamlessly).

    I press Loop 1 again to go into playback mode proper (stop recording), and there the pop happens. I didn't know that another Undo press would close the overdub--I assumed it would undo what I just did.
     
  12. bjorkj02

    bjorkj02 Member

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    I have an older Mac that can't run the application, so I need to manually update firmware. I just tried doing this, and have a question...

    At http://pigtronix.com/SPLfirmware/ , the following links appear:
    • Parent Directory
    • 2.0_BETA/
    • V1.0 firmware/
    • V1.0 variants/
    • fwupdate.dat

    Which is the correct option for this update?

    I downloaded "fwupdate.dat" within the 2.0_BETA/ directory, and now when I boot my Infinity I see "2 0 2" in the display. I'm guessing this is correct (and the build has bumped a couple times since the blog post), but it'd be good to know for sure. Also, if Pigtronix could make a new directory for this release -- or otherwise make it clearer -- that would be appreciated.
     
  13. btdvox

    btdvox Supporting Member

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    Man, the infinity looper's updating procedures and structure is a complete mess. I haven't been this confused in ages and I'm a BA for a Software Dev Firm. For some reason the application won't load for me. Says looper cant be found even tho its connected.
     
  14. elron hoover

    elron hoover Member

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    I think you're hearing with your eyes. You'll never pick out the Boomerang tone vs straight tone in a blind test.
     
    XISTH likes this.
  15. RockDebris

    RockDebris Member

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    Took me a while to go through the blogs and figure out the path I was supposed to be on. Finally, it seemed I had done everything right and still I had the same problem you are having. It turned out that I needed to run the application (on Windows) as Administrator (ie: Right click app icon, choose "Run As Administrator ...").

    Now I'm a happy camper, been through another update cycle with no problem and it is handled nearly automatic once you have the new version of the app running.
     
  16. Squatch57

    Squatch57 Member

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    Thanks for the info guys, I'm tentatively gonna log on today and update, I bought mine used a few months ago
    and haven't even plugged into the PC yet. I wanna install a 32gig card at the same time, but I can't find
    much info about that process. Do I need to format the card or what?

    Any tips on the memory upgrade? I just got a new Samsung card in the mail
     
  17. Dennis Rohrbacher

    Dennis Rohrbacher Member

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    The Infinity ships with an 8 GB microSD Card capable of 2 hours of audio recording divided among up to 50 presets. As described in the Infinity User's Guide on Page 48, each preset's maximum recording time depends on three factors:

    1. Size of the microSD Card
    2. Number of Presets
    3. Multiplier Value
    The Pigtronix Infinity Application allows users to reformat the Infinity's microSD Card for different numbers of presets to balance the required length of loops with the necessary number of presets. If you need longer loops but don't require as many presets, reformat the Infinity for fewer presets using the Infinity's Application Menu Bar: Tools->Edit Preset Structure.

    Changing the number of presets re-formats the microSD Card and erases all Audio and Preset Settings currently on the Infinity!

    For users who need longer maximum loop time and more presets, the microSD Card can be swapped for a larger one up to 32GB.

    In order to successful upgrade your microSD card, please carefully follow the instructions below. This process is technical and should ONLY be performed by knowledgeable computer users. Users who do not know what they are doing risk serious damage to their computer. Pigtronix is not responsible if you accidentally reformat your computer's hard drive instead of the microSD card. These instructions are provided for reference only.

    • microSD Card's used in the Infinity MUST be Class 6 or Class 10. Below are two examples of cards that are compatible with the Infinity:
    16 GB Class 10 SanDisk microSD Card

    32 GB Class 10 SanDisk microSD Card

    • Using a #2 Phillips head screw driver, remove the back of the Infinity. Removing and replacing the Infinity's back cover are the only times you will need any tools. DO NOT USE TOOLS INSIDE THE INFINITY!
    Removing the back of the unit to replace the microSD Card does not automatically void your warranty. Your warranty will only be void should you cause any unreasonable damage to the internals of your Infinity: Spilling liquids inside your Infinity, physically damaging the internals with tools (no tools should be used inside the Infinity), unauthorized repairs, etc

    • Depending on when your Infinity was manufactured you will have one of the microSD Card holders pictured below.
      • For early Infinity's the microSD Card holder will look like the image below. To remove the microSD Card, push on the microSD Card itself from right to left until you hear a click. Release the microSD Card and it will partially eject itself from the holder. Carefully grab the microSD Card and pull right until it is free. To insert the new microSD Card, hold it as pictured (with the notch pointed up), insert it into the holder from the right, and press until you hear a click.[​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
    • For later Infinity's the microSD Card will look like the image below. To remove the microSD Card, press your finger on the metal cover and slide it left. You will feel a slight click once it is unlocked. Once it is unlocked, CAREFULLY flip the cover to the left; doing so roughly can disconnect the cover from the rest of the holder and if you are unable to re-attach it the unit will have to be sent to us as an out of warranty repair. Once the cover is freed the microSD Card can be lifted out of the holder. To insert the new microSD Card, hold it as pictured (with the notch pointed up), and place it into the holder from above. There is a complementary notch in the holder that will hold it in place. Then CAREFULLY flip the cover to the right, press it closed, and slide the cover to the right.
    • [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    • Replace the Infinity's back plate and use the #2 Phillips head screw driver to tighten the screws. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN/STRIP THE SCREWS.
    Formatting the new microSD Card:

    Connect the Infinity to your Mac or PC using the USB Cable, then connect the power to the Infinity.

    Windows:
    • Click on the File icon highlighted in the above picture, this will open a File Dialog so that you can select the LooperImage.img file downloaded in the previous step. Navigate to the folder where you downloaded the LooperImage.img file (likely in your Downloads folder).
    [​IMG]

    • Select LooperImage.img and click Open.
    • Now find the Drive letter for the Infinity drive on your computer. Below is an image that shows the drive letter to be "G" It may be different on your computer and may change depending on how many USB drives you have connected to your computer.
    [​IMG]
    • Win32 Disk Imager will now have the path to the LooperImage.img filled into the "Image File" text box:
    • [​IMG]
    • After clicking "Yes" Win32 Disk Imager will display it's progress.
    Disconnect the Infinity from the computer and power cycle the unit to leave USB mode. The Infinity will automatically setup the default 50 presets.

    MAC:
    • Download and unzip InfinitySDFormat.zip.
    • Download and save the LooperImage.img file into the folder with InfinitySDFormat.sh, the file created by unzipping InfinitySDFormat.zip
    • Go to Applications->Utilities and run Terminal.

    [​IMG]

    • In the terminal window type "cd" and a space, and then drag the folder icon of the window containing InfinitySDFormat.sh into the Terminal. After the path to the folder has appeared in Terminal press "Enter"
    [​IMG]

    • Type "./InfinitySDFormat.sh" into the Terminal and press Enter and follow the on screen instructions. Select the Drive you wish to format by typing the number to the right of it and then type "y" if you are sure it is the correct drive and wish to format it.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Squatch57

    Squatch57 Member

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    Thanks so much Dennis, that's great info!
    I've installed the card, now I have to decide how many subdivisions before reformatting
    It seems that formatting to 15 subdivisions will give me almost 12 minutes per loop,
    but 10 subdivisions will give me almost 18 minutes. Decisions, decisions...

    EDIT: neither of the PC files were found, I only got an error message in German
    Maybe this is an old update tutorial, or it's because I'm in Australia
    I probably should have booted it onto my PC before I installed the card
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
  19. Squatch57

    Squatch57 Member

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    Well that was a big waste of time updating to the beta first
    Everything's held on the SD card, so nothing stays on the PC anyway
    Unless I can find a source of the LooperImage.img file that isn't a broken link I'm stuck
    You'd think Pigtronix would have instructions on card upgrading, but I've given up looking
    Has anybody upgraded the memory on their Infinity? I can't find anything on the net
     
  20. codetocontra

    codetocontra Member

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    I believe in the past Pigronix has said they need to format your card, so ship it to them. Don't know if that has changed. It would be worth directly contacting them to find out what to do.
     

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