Boost MIDI Signal

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,745
Bear with me, please. I’m a borderline MIDIot.

im trying to string multiple devices off my controller. Four, specifically. I know that all work just fine if they get the signal in their MIDI IN jack from my controller. But if I chain them together, MIDI IN, MIDI THRU, MIDI IN, MIDI THRU, etc., I can’t get the last device to respond. I suspect the MIDI signal just isn’t strong enough.

How do you remedy this? At the moment, I’m only controlling guitar preamps. MIDI control of my effects would make it worse!
 

Blix

Wannabe Shredder
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
29,198
That looks interesting, but I’m not sure a bunch of TRS MIDI ports are the best option. If they had that in normal 5 or 7 pin MIDI, that would be great.
Hence compact. There's plenty midi splitters with DIN too.
 

BlueWolf

Mutations Expert
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
1,678
Never run into midi signal problems due to a long chain.
I suspect other causes…broken cables…”midi thru settings”…or at the receiving end.
I agree. Each pedal should rebroadcast the MIDI signal with enough power to drive the next pedal. It’s not likely there’s any signal degradation. This is more likely a setting issue or a problem with a pedal or cable.
 

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,745
I agree. Each pedal should rebroadcast the MIDI signal with enough power to drive the next pedal. It’s not likely there’s any signal degradation. This is more likely a setting issue or a problem with a pedal or cable.
I'm told in the Synergy thread that SYN-2 units are problematic for anything after them. Apparently, their THRU degrades the signal. So me using multiple SYN-2 is probably the issue.

I guess I need a powered splitter.
 

TJontheRoad

Just Wanna Be Misunderstood
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,637
Messages
2,895
That looks interesting, but I’m not sure a bunch of TRS MIDI ports are the best option. If they had that in normal 5 or 7 pin MIDI, that would be great.
More than half my gear, even striving for DIN, is TRS now, which I'm sure will be the continuing trend. Given that the two readily adapt to each other, personally I see it just now becoming time to think in and prepare for TRS foremost, and adapt out to DIN, rather than the other way around. ..For a pedal platform anyhow.
 

JamonGrande

Member
Messages
1,852
Re: power for passive splitter boxes. Some cables are not fully wired to allow for power. I discovered that the One Control right angle midi cables do not carry power, where many other brands do.

Re: needing a thru/splitter box. I also discovered that not all thru ports transmit reliably. I’ve had a couple of midi routing plans go south because of eventide boxes in particular in a chain of three stomp boxes. Using the MidiOx utility, I could see that information was being sent but was corrupted out of the Eventide thru ports (older Factor series stomps).
 

CarlGuitarist

Member
Messages
4,007
More than half my gear, even striving for DIN, is TRS now, which I'm sure will be the continuing trend. Given that the two readily adapt to each other, personally I see it just now becoming time to think in and prepare for TRS foremost, and adapt out to DIN, rather than the other way around. ..For a pedal platform anyhow.

It’s just a shame that there’s like four different pinouts that companies use for TRS midi, instead of sticking to some form of standard. I mean that was the entire idea behind midi in the first place. Other than that I welcome the change.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
I'm told in the Synergy thread that SYN-2 units are problematic for anything after them. Apparently, their THRU degrades the signal. So me using multiple SYN-2 is probably the issue.

I guess I need a powered splitter.

Ordered the Kenton today. Thanks.
I have a Kenton Thru-5 and a Merge-8 in my rig. Be sure to feed them regulated power. I'm powering them from a Yankee HS-M12 which has variable sections with digital displays for whatever the voltage is set to...well, the variable section of HS-M12 is not very accurate; I had to use a multimeter to correctly set the variable voltage.

When I first plugged everything in, I was getting MIDI corruption because the voltage to the Kentons was just a touch too high. With the voltage accurately set, the Kentons have been solid
 
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RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,745
The Kenton Thru 5 was delivered yesterday. So I decided to go at the issue yet again.

The first thing I did was plug in the power supply for the Morningstar MC8 into the phantom power jack of my first Synergy SYN-2. It didn't really change anything other than not needing to run power to the footswitch. Nice! Cool feature.

Before trying the Kenton Thru 5, I remained curious about the Quadra Thru. Why the heck wasn't in working. So I gave it another shot. I ran the MIDI cable from the MC8 to the first SYN-2 (it is 7 pin, so it can't go to the Quadra Thru). Then I hooked one short MIDI cable from that first SYN-2's MIDI THRU to the Quadra Thru, with one cable out of the Quadra Thru to another SYN-2. Holy smokes! I saw the blue MIDI LED light up for the first time ever. What??? That was positive.

So I rearranged the cabling for neatness and tried doing the same, feeding three SYN-2. Nope! Nothing! Not even the blue MIDI LED was lighting up. Something clearly was wrong. The only major change, other than using more outs from the Quadra Thru, was that I had switched which cable was feeding the Quadra Thru. I had put my One Control MIDI Hammer cable in that spot. Apparently, that was the issue.

Any other MIDI cable feeding the Quadra Thru would get the blue to light up, and everything was fine. But the One Control cable apparently doesn't pass along power. So it can't be the one feeding the Quadra Thru. It was fine coming out of the Quadra Thru to a SYN-2.

Ha ha. So I bought the Kenton Thru 5 for no reason. I suppose I'll keep it around for some other future MIDI emergency need.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
The Kenton Thru 5 was delivered yesterday. So I decided to go at the issue yet again.

The first thing I did was plug in the power supply for the Morningstar MC8 into the phantom power jack of my first Synergy SYN-2. It didn't really change anything other than not needing to run power to the footswitch. Nice! Cool feature.

Before trying the Kenton Thru 5, I remained curious about the Quadra Thru. Why the heck wasn't in working. So I gave it another shot. I ran the MIDI cable from the MC8 to the first SYN-2 (it is 7 pin, so it can't go to the Quadra Thru). Then I hooked one short MIDI cable from that first SYN-2's MIDI THRU to the Quadra Thru, with one cable out of the Quadra Thru to another SYN-2. Holy smokes! I saw the blue MIDI LED light up for the first time ever. What??? That was positive.

So I rearranged the cabling for neatness and tried doing the same, feeding three SYN-2. Nope! Nothing! Not even the blue MIDI LED was lighting up. Something clearly was wrong. The only major change, other than using more outs from the Quadra Thru, was that I had switched which cable was feeding the Quadra Thru. I had put my One Control MIDI Hammer cable in that spot. Apparently, that was the issue.

Any other MIDI cable feeding the Quadra Thru would get the blue to light up, and everything was fine. But the One Control cable apparently doesn't pass along power. So it can't be the one feeding the Quadra Thru. It was fine coming out of the Quadra Thru to a SYN-2.

Ha ha. So I bought the Kenton Thru 5 for no reason. I suppose I'll keep it around for some other future MIDI emergency need.
as you have determined (and as @JamonGrande alluded to) , you have a
3-wired cable in your cable set routing and you require 5-wired to get the results you want; both 3-wired (typically omitting pins 1 and 3) and 5-wired configs have 5pin DIN connectors, they are wired differently; typically to carry phantom power

Herein lies the problem with molded cable connectors; You really want cables with mechanical connectors so you can open the shell and inspect/ repair the terminations :)

it's really, really easy easy to confuse terms
like "5-wired" with "5pin DIN".
 
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RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,745
as you have determined (and as @JamonGrande alluded to) , you have a
3-wired cable in your cable set routing and you require 5-wired to get the results you want; both 3-wired (typically omitting pins 1 and 3) and 5-wired configs have 5pin DIN connectors, they are wired differently; typically to carry phantom power

Herein lies the problem with molded cable connectors; You really want cables with mechanical connectors so you can open the shell and inspect/ repair the terminations :)

it's really, really easy easy to confuse terms
like "5-wired" with "5pin DIN".
Yes, @JamonGrande nailed it regarding the One Control cables. It's a bummer that there's no way of being certain that a 5 pin "MIDI cable" does or does not have all five pins wired. It does sort of make a bit more sense that the wires are so conveniently narrow and flexible: only three conductors! On the flip side, the cheap little Hosa one foot MIDI cables are just fine. All five pins are actually wired. Who knew!
 




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