Originally posted by Moe45673
A number of reasons. One of them being you may want to use the eq pedal for tone shaping. Using EQ as a boost function, IMO, is limiting the usefulness of an EQ.
Originally posted by StompBoxBlues
I do find that at higher volumes, that wonderful sound you got at bedroom levels is no longer the nice sound it was.
I do find that at higher volumes, that wonderful sound you got at bedroom levels is no longer the nice sound it was.
This is what makes an EQ so indespensible to the club gigging musician......If we go to a big place, we can crank the amps and get good tone.....but if we do a small place, we cant - by using an eq I can get those lows & mids where they need to be to fatten things up....tweaking those frequencies that are just missing or too prevelent when playing a low volumes....
Originally posted by TheUsualSuspect
This is what makes an EQ so indespensible to the club gigging musician......If we go to a big place, we can crank the amps and get good tone.....but if we do a small place, we cant - by using an eq I can get those lows & mids where they need to be to fatten things up....tweaking those frequencies that are just missing or too prevelent when playing a low volumes....
Originally posted by StompBoxBlues
This is interesting though...I'd like to hear/learn about this once and for all, because I do forget...
I always thought (and seems to me I experienced too) what you are describing. That at HIGH volumes the bass and mids tend to be more prevalent in relation to the same settings at lower volumes.
But I have read numerous times on forums and threads, that the common knowledge is that it is bass & highs that get more prevalent at higher volumes in relation to same settings on lower volumes.
This would tend to be bourne out by, for one example the two switched on a THD HotPlate, one for lows (compensation...raising the lows for playing at lower volumes in attempt to keep tone same as at high) and HIGHS (for the same).
So which is it? Or is this variable depending on the amp, speakers, etc.?
Anyone know definitively? Because it DOES seem to me that it is mids and lows.
Originally posted by Kaiser
what about open spaces??
Originally posted by TheUsualSuspect
Heck with volumes & relationships (I dont even want to go there - cuz it doesnt matter in real life when moving from place to place - too many other variables are more important) - its all about the rooms for me.....Some places are all wood and carpeted stages and things are resonant...Some places are concrete & hardwoods and inherently thin sounding.....
I couldnt give a horses patoot about relationships to volumes & frequencies - it doesnt matter to me and shouldnt too any gigging musician unless they play the same place or very, very similar places.....For me, the main concern is acoustic properties.....
When I walk into a place and its all hardwood & high ceilings - its an immediate uh-oh.....But an eq will help, cuz I cant turn up (sound carries & bounces) and highs will carry and lows will dissappear......
If I walk into a carpeted wood stage & solid wood walls, I am smiling and wont be using an EQ at all......
Of course, I use a 2x12 cab for convience - this is far more susceptible to position and room acoustics than a 4x12 might be - but either way - IMO, anyone who doesnt take any room acoustics into consideration and wonders why their "Tone went away from practice" at such and such a gig - well, they need to pay more attention to surroundings and might be better served taking a class or getting involved into other things like sound mixing or home theater......
Might be more prevelant for me as I did extensive research on acoustics and built a studio/theater for band practice and incorproated many acoustic properties into it....Unfortunately, no club will ever sound as good as our practice space - but we can "turn up" without hurting ears because of this and everyone that ever plays there enjoys it.....
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Short version - whenever you cant turn up, the acoustics that cause this will make highs bounce all over and lows dissapear (concrete, hardwood floors).....
When you can turn up - its usually because of the acoustics that make lows resonant and highs dissapate (carpet, drywall, wood walls, etc).....
Why is hardwood floor bad & wood walls good - Wood floors are laminated and sealed - they dont resonate as well....They tend to reflect sound....
Originally posted by StompBoxBlues
While those are good points, these are both seperate issues, AND they overlap.
It DOES matter to me about the frequency changes as volume increases, even in the same room.
And it is definitely something you consider also in the environment, and that different environments will affect it all differently.
But my question was pretty concrete too, if at a certain volume I have a sound, and I raise the volume considerably, which (seperating them into only three bass, mid, and high) bands will be affected most...which will become more prominant in the same room?
It's a valid question, and can help in getting the right sound in any room too...as well as the rooms own acoustics, and the specifics of your rig (open vs. closed back, how far away...etc).
I mean, you can go as deep as you want into this. A humid day will produce a different sound than the same settings on a dry day, on the same outdoor stage, etc.
But the freq.'s that get boosted most when you raise the volume, with all else being equal, ought to be more predictable. You have more info on that and it helps with the rest.
Originally posted by StompBoxBlues
I'm sure you know what is valid for you or not...but let me just run one scenario by you then.
You are in some environment, you start out the evening at lower volumes and have your sound just right.
As the night wears on, the levels start creeping a little in the whole band, maybe also the setlist has a buildup and it starts getting louder. You need to adjust your volume (both "regular" for backup and comp, and solo levels...either chosen through channels on a two-channel amp, or with a boost pedal, whatever) and you find your sound changing in the wrong way.
It suddenly is not cutting through the same way it was, and it just doesn't sound as good.
It would be good at a time like that to know which knobs are most likey to get that sound back in line, no?
This isn't "theoretical" or "experimental"...this happens, and usually you don't have a lot of time to adjust, listen, adjust, listen, so it is best if you know what happens to the sound as volume increases. This can help one do minimal and least adjustments to get it back.
Or the opposite...you got a great sound, the bar owner tells you "turn it the hell DOWN, and I mean it" and suddenly you lose "that" sound. It's good to know the physics of what is happening, to help quicker recovery of as much of the tone as you can.
Here's the key...it is the SAME environment. That ship has sailed. You are in the same room, granted at higher volumes reflections may travel longer/further, but generally that is the constant. THe variable is the volume coming out of your amp.