Boss Buffers, New Vs. Old Pedals?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Leftyman, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Leftyman

    Leftyman Gold Supporting Member

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    Can anyone tell me if there is a difference between buffers in Boss pedals made in the 80's vs. Boss pedals of today? If they are different, are they better or worse? I am looking to get either an old CE-2 from the 80's or a new CE-2 Waza.
     
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  2. fenderjapan

    fenderjapan World Heavyweight Champion Silver Supporting Member

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    I've owned boss pedals as early as 1983 and as recent as 2016 and they have all had great buffering.

    The waza ce-2w is fantastic.
     
  3. cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    Not all Boss buffers are equal- most vintage Boss pedals are specd at 10kohm output impedance, while the GE-7 for example has 1kohm output impedance. Also I hear a difference in some of them, the dd-2 buffer sounds harsher than the others to me. Haven't tried any new boss pedals lately, just saying they're definitely not all the same.
     
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  4. Leftyman

    Leftyman Gold Supporting Member

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    What does the 10kohm vs. the 1kohm impedence do to the sound if anything? I had an old big chip DD-3 at one time and ultimately sold it because of the buffer. With that being said and what you have stated, maybe I am better off going with a newer Boss pedal.
     
  5. Revelation

    Revelation Member

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    All I know is I have the new Boss Waza tuner. With my signal going through 6 pedals it losses some low end. I change the Boss Tuner from bypass to buffer and all the low end returns. Love it
     
  6. Blue-moon

    Blue-moon Supporting Member

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    Low end? You mean high end, right?

    Unless you mean you low end returns (highs are rolled off) when you switch from buffer to bypass.
     
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  7. Revelation

    Revelation Member

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    Sorry yes I meant the top end returns. Shouldn't type when watching TV. ;)
     
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  8. nrandall85

    nrandall85 Member

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    I'm a big fan of deprecated Boss pedals from the 80's. I regularly use a PV-1 Volume Rocker and DD-2.

    All I can say is that they buff the $*** out of your signal. Which works for me, since my signal is going through a bunch of other crap without buffers or true bypass.
     
  9. philrob1

    philrob1 Member

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    Boss buffers aren't all that great. The "better" ones take low end off the signal and the "worse" ones take high and low frequencies.

    The also have a negative impact on pedals further on down the line...put a CS-2 in a true bypass looper (disengaged) with a Tube Driver next in line, bring the bypassed CS-2 in and out and you'll see what I mean.
     
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  10. pup tentacle

    pup tentacle Silver Supporting Member

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    I've run every pedal I've ever had through a tbp looper because I'm obsessed with how they may affect the bypassed signal. Four of them have been old Boss pedals from the early 80s to the mid 90s, a CE2, PH2, DD5 and DD2, and two of them were new, a DD500 and DM2w. All 4 of the old ones noticeably degraded the signal, and the new ones did not. I replicated the results repeatedly, using blind testing. I know this doesn't mean all old Boss buffers are bad, but all of mine have been.
     
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  11. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    Most Boss pedals have the same input/output buffer setups, and will sound fairly similar in bypass (new or old). But there are a few that have more things going on than just an input and output buffer stage, and those tend to be the ones that people single out as having "bad buffers". For instance those that run the dry signal through a pre-emphasis (essentially a treble boost) stage before the actual fx circuit, with a de-emphasis (essentially a treble cut) stage after, doubling as the output buffer - that can have a noticeable effect on the signal (which you'll only hear if you A/B with and without it in the chain). The DD-2, DD-3, DM-2, DM-3 and some of the chorus pedals are in this category. Interestingly, some of the delay pedals mentioned have a dry output which is fed from a point before the pre- and de-emphasis stages, and then goes through a standard output buffer. So with those, if you want to hear what those additional stages do to the dry signal, you can try using the dry output to compare with the normal (mix) output (with the pedal in bypass).

    So to sum up, I'd say that while there are differences between different Boss pedals' bypass signal paths, it is related more to how that particular circuit is set up, rather than a simple "old vs new" differential.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
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  12. songtalk

    songtalk Member

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    Shouldn't we also turn everything on and play some music too? Probably need at least an amp and a guitar also if you wanna test this, right?

    I only wanna know because I'm about to click "buy it now" on a tube driver, a CS-2 and a true bypass looper (seller assured me it's disengaged) and I want to make sure I can really test this.

    ;) :p
     
  13. Revelation

    Revelation Member

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    I could not find any info if my new Boss Waza Tuner has any updates circuit with the buffer compared to the much older Boss buffer circuit. :confused:
     
  14. cerebralpaul

    cerebralpaul Member

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    This thread is actually about how the pedals affect the tone in bypass... but ha,ha, anyway
     
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  15. Rockerduck

    Rockerduck Member

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    The Boss waza pedals have great buffers compared to my older 80's Boss pedals. I can tell the difference when I take my DM-2 off my board. That also applies to my Ph1r, and BR-2.
     
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  16. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    The DM-2, PH-1r and BF-2 (if that's the one you meant) all have the additional pre- and de-emphasis circuitry in the dry signal path, so I'm not surprised they change the tone. The input buffers in them are the same as in other ('80s or brand new) Boss pedals, but that's where the similarities end.
     
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  17. songtalk

    songtalk Member

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    I've never put boss pedals in or taKen them out of the chain, old or new, and thought "that sounds way different, wth!?"
     
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  18. fenderjapan

    fenderjapan World Heavyweight Champion Silver Supporting Member

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    It is incredible how much people can hear with their eyes. Like all of the tone being "sucked" by their boss buffers.
     
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  19. nrandall85

    nrandall85 Member

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    You really can't hear it? We're not talking weight of guitars or finishes here. A buffer makes a big impact on your sound, especially if it's early in your signal chain.
     
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  20. fenderjapan

    fenderjapan World Heavyweight Champion Silver Supporting Member

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    Buffers are there to help your signal stay consistent, not to alter it. Yes there are bad buffers but again, in my experience using boss pedals, their buffers are not among them
     
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