Boss Dm-3 question

[Codyh630]

I see a ton of people with a Boss Dm-2 on their board, but not many with a DM-3. Is this simply because they're seen as less desirable or did Boss not produce as many of them?

 

[Mystik Spiral]

I'd say its about 50/50

I like th dm-3 more, slightly cleaner/brighter repeats, more delay time, and it runs quieter. All good homie

 

[jazzblaster]

what he said

yeah me too i prefer the dm-3

 

[Coldacre]

I like th dm-3 more, slightly cleaner/brighter repeats, more delay time, and it runs quieter.

delay time is 300ms, same as the DM-2

 

[stephenyi]

I thought DM-3 sounded very similar to the DM-2, just a bit cleaner. I ended up selling the DM-2 and keeping the DM-3.

 

[Codyh630]

I think the Dm-3 has 330ms.
I was just curious as to why there are so many Dm-2s on people's boards compared to Dm-3's. I guess once all the Dm-2s get snatched up, people will start using the Dm-3s. The prices on them have gone up a lot recently.
I have a DM-3 and I love it.

 

[AXXA]

I have 2 DM-2's and a DM-3, all with the MN3205 chips. They are pretty much the same to my ears. The DM-3's repeats are a tiny bit clearer at low delay times, but once the delay time is past the halfway mark or so, they really all sound similar. Granted, the original DM-2 with the MN3005 chips are the most desirable, perhaps there is more of difference between that and the DM-3. The MN3005 DM-2 is supposed to be a bit darker I believe, but I don't have that one (yet!). I love mine all equally, they're my favorite delays I've had.

 

[Leftyman]

I would love to pick one of these up but I am just curious as to how practical they are with only 300 ms of delay time. Are most of you using them for slapback? I just had my old Boss DD-3 with the big chip modded my Analogman for the darker repeats and I think it sounds great, but I still wonder about the DM series.

 

[vintage66]

I would love to pick one of these up but I am just curious as to how practical they are with only 300 ms of delay time. Are most of you using them for slapback? I just had my old Boss DD-3 with the big chip modded my Analogman for the darker repeats and I think it sounds great, but I still wonder about the DM series.

I had a similar analog delay with 300ms and sold it because it was limiting to only have 300ms. Maybe I should have kept it for short delays, but I couldn't see just having it alone. It did sound good though.

 

[Mystik Spiral]

delay time is 300ms, same as the DM-2

get a load of this green horn, am I right?

 

[Coldacre]

I think the Dm-3 has 330ms.

http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/dm3.xml

 

[Hector Arcadius]

So, what's the street price for a decent-state DM-3 nowadays? There is one for sale in my local classifieds...

 

[Codyh630]

So, what's the street price for a decent-state DM-3 nowadays? There is one for sale in my local classifieds...

I picked mine up for $150.
On Ebay, they're going for $180-$315 for Buy It Now.

 

[Hector Arcadius]

I picked mine up for $150.
On Ebay, they're going for $180-$315 for Buy It Now.

Oh, my... you just got me thinking...

 

[cookieshoes]

I see a ton of people with a Boss Dm-2 on their board, but not many with a DM-3. Is this simply because they're seen as less desirable or did Boss not produce as many of them?

It's a combination of rarity + sound difference. Boss didn't produce many DM-2s with the MN3005 chip. The majority of the DM-2s, and all of the DM-3s out there have the MN3205 chip. Only the earliest DM-2s have the MN3005 chip in them. Of those, you have to really be careful that someone didn't mess with the trimpots.(Disclaimer: I have my DM-2 with MN3005 for sale in the Emporium right now).

Between the DM-2 and the DM-3, the difference in sound is obvious. The DM-3 is clearer and brighter, similar to the Maxon and Ibanez analog delays. The DM-2 with MN3005 is warmer and more ambient and thicker. A DM-3 vs Maxon/Ibanez isn't so much of a difference. A DM-3 vs a DM-2 with the same MN3205 chip will still be different because the DM-3 has a noise reduction circuit. Just like vinyl or tape, there will always be some noise to an analog pedal. What's funny is that the DM-2 I have, and others I've heard, have zero noise on the repeats as it is, so I think it was a matter of adding a noise reduction circuit to see how "clean" they could get those repeats. The clean aspect replaced the ability for the repeats to melt into each other, imo.

Clones of the DM-2 (like the Aquapuss, Retrosonic, etc) are just that, clones. No different than a Klon, a Deluxe Memory Man, or any other pedal with "mojo". The original will always be the original.

As for why one pedal shows up on pedal boards more than the other? For one, most agree that the DM-2 is the rarest of analog delays. Second, if you can get one with MN3005, that's even more rare. Third, the DM-3 isn't known as much for being a unique sound. If you have a choice between a DM-3 or an AD-9, AD80, etc. the difference isn't as large. So, it's harder for the DM-3 to compete as the "must have" pedal amongst the competition. Lots of players use them, usually because you can get them cheaper than a DM-2, but they just don't have as much of a "signature" sound to them.

 

[AXXA]

I would love to pick one of these up but I am just curious as to how practical they are with only 300 ms of delay time. Are most of you using them for slapback? I just had my old Boss DD-3 with the big chip modded my Analogman for the darker repeats and I think it sounds great, but I still wonder about the DM series.

They are slap back machines, and should be used as such for the most part, IMO. Slap back and short delays are certainly where these shine, and 300ms is more than enough for that purpose. They can sound awesome with the delay time cranked too, but the quality of the repeats can be more lo-fi, depending on your unit. With delay time at full and feedback set to oscillation, they can do a really nice ambient wash type deal. That's why I usually use 2 on board, 1 for each sound.

 

[gold_soundz]

It's a combination of rarity + sound difference. Boss didn't produce many DM-2s with the MN3005 chip. The majority of the DM-2s, and all of the DM-3s out there have the MN3205 chip. Only the earliest DM-2s have the MN3005 chip in them. Of those, you have to really be careful that someone didn't mess with the trimpots.(Disclaimer: I have my DM-2 with MN3005 for sale in the Emporium right now).

Between the DM-2 and the DM-3, the difference in sound is obvious. The DM-3 is clearer and brighter, similar to the Maxon and Ibanez analog delays. The DM-2 with MN3005 is warmer and more ambient and thicker. A DM-3 vs Maxon/Ibanez isn't so much of a difference. A DM-3 vs a DM-2 with the same MN3205 chip will still be different because the DM-3 has a noise reduction circuit. Just like vinyl or tape, there will always be some noise to an analog pedal. What's funny is that the DM-2 I have, and others I've heard, have zero noise on the repeats as it is, so I think it was a matter of adding a noise reduction circuit to see how "clean" they could get those repeats. The clean aspect replaced the ability for the repeats to melt into each other, imo.

Clones of the DM-2 (like the Aquapuss, Retrosonic, etc) are just that, clones. No different than a Klon, a Deluxe Memory Man, or any other pedal with "mojo". The original will always be the original.

As for why one pedal shows up on pedal boards more than the other? For one, most agree that the DM-2 is the rarest of analog delays. Second, if you can get one with MN3005, that's even more rare. Third, the DM-3 isn't known as much for being a unique sound. If you have a choice between a DM-3 or an AD-9, AD80, etc. the difference isn't as large. So, it's harder for the DM-3 to compete as the "must have" pedal amongst the competition. Lots of players use them, usually because you can get them cheaper than a DM-2, but they just don't have as much of a "signature" sound to them.

I love my dm2, but the dm3 sounds very similar to my ears. I wouldnt care which one i use. And I do think the dm2 has noise in the repeats - that's why they bothered to put a noise reduction circuit in its successor.

I stand to be corrected, but I thought the aqua puss is an ad80 clone, not dm2? The original aqua puss sounds better than the dm2 in my view too.

 

[cookieshoes]

I love my dm2, but the dm3 sounds very similar to my ears. I wouldnt care which one i use. And I do think the dm2 has noise in the repeats - that's why they bothered to put a noise reduction circuit in its successor.

I stand to be corrected, but I thought the aqua puss is an ad80 clone, not dm2? The original aqua puss sounds better than the dm2 in my view too.

Regarding noise, it depends which DM-2 you use. The MN3005 chip in the early DM-2s have a signal/noise ratio of 75db and the MN3205 in the ones after the switch have a S/N of 67db. Similar to the differences between the transistors in fuzz pedals, these specs play a similar part. In this case, this affects the noise of the repeats, as well as the headroom. As does the calibration of the pedal. And since the chip in the DM-3 is the same MN3205 chip as found in most DM-2s, most side-by-sides of those two pedals will sound similar to a degree, since they're pretty much still the same circuit (apart from the noise reduction in the DM-3), using the same chips. An MN3005 DM-2 vs an MN3205 DM-3 is a different story.

All analog delays have their own form of noise in the repeats (not to be confused with pedals being "noisy" - such as a pedal which hisses or has a constant whine or buzz), but that's the character of the delays. No different than the sound in popular digital delays (El Cap, Brig, Montavillian, Wampler, Skreddy Echo), where a degradation effect was put into the repeats to make it sound more "analog". When I bought my first analog delay, I was surprised at how quiet it actually was, considering how long I'd always heard that analog pedals were "noisy". As I said, my DM-2 is completely silent.

As for the DM-2 and the noise reduction in the DM-3, I think that was probably a decision towards getting as clean of repeats as possible. But notice that it wouldn't be long before Boss would release the DD-2, and discontinue the analog delays altogether. So, what we now find as "mojo" and "warmth" in the DM-2 is actually something that Boss probably did find "too noisy", and tried to clean up with the DM-3, before giving up on the technology in favor of crystal clear digital repeats.

As far as I know, the Aqua Puss is a clone of a DM-2, with some differences. The ad80 and the DM-2 have their similarities as well. Again, as long as you are comparing ad80 and DM-2 with the MN3005 chips.

 

[Pedal Dan]

Part of the sound DM-2's with the Matsushita MN3005 have is due to the lower voltage they operate at. Roland picked thru many and discarded ones with high distortion. They still have a slight distortion quality that you won't get if you run them at the 15v they were designed for. The ones that passed the distortion test got a green spot of paint to OK them. DM-3's do sound cleaner because the MN3205 is optimized for 9v. The trim pots on all of them can easily be recalabrated.