Budda amps, questions and nomenclatures

[macmax77]

Hi Guys:

Can you tell me the differences in sound between a Series 1 Budda SD and a Series 2?

Differences between the Twinmaster, Stringmaster, Verbmaster. Thank you!

 

[sickboy79]

Hi Guys:

Can you tell me the differences in sound between a Series 1 Budda SD and a Series 2?

Differences between the Twinmaster, Stringmaster, Verbmaster. Thank you!

Series I applied to the very early Superdrive amps.

Series I = Hand wired / PTP and no mid pull control and cab switching (really cool feature).
Series II = same circuit, PCB, mid pull control

Twinmaster = 18w little firebreather. Think Vox meets Plexi like tones.
Verbmaster = Twinmaster plus really nice reverb.
Stringmaster is the next extention of the Twinmaster with more features. Built in attenuator, boost switch, and essentially a Twinmaster channel and a higher gain channel/mode. Cab switching too. Predecessor to the Superdrive series. All were hand wired/PTP.

Hope that helps.

 

[The Whale]

Hi Guys:

Can you tell me the differences in sound between a Series 1 Budda SD and a Series 2?

I've owned Series 1 and Series 2, both pre-peavey. Here's what I know:
Series 1: Two sets up of speaker outs with switchable impedences. Hand wired
Series 2: One set of speaker outs, PCBs, pull-mid shift on the mids.

Sonically, I hear no difference between my series one SD18 and my series 2 SD18. It's just an awesome amp... and super duper loud. 18s are PLENTY gigable

 

[macmax77]

Series I applied to the very early Superdrive amps.

Series I = Hand wired / PTP and no mid pull control and cab switching (really cool feature).
Series II = same circuit, PCB, mid pull control

Twinmaster = 18w little firebreather. Think Vox meets Plexi like tones.
Verbmaster = Twinmaster plus really nice reverb.
Stringmaster is the next extention of the Twinmaster with more features. Built in attenuator, boost switch, and essentially a Twinmaster channel and a higher gain channel/mode. Cab switching too. Predecessor to the Superdrive series. All were hand wired/PTP.

Hope that helps.

So between the last 3, which one would you get?
Or would you go with a SD?

 

[aynirar27]

Can’t go wrong with any of them, what kind of music do you play?

 

[macmax77]

Can’t go wrong with any of them, what kind of music do you play?

That kind you can play with a Budda, lol. JK.

I tend to gravitate between classic rock to the full 90's spectrum. That goes from SG to AIC to some Matchbox 20, etc. So from full Heavy tones to mild rock tones.

When I need to go full heavy I have this little Landy pedal that rocks.

I owned two SD80 amps. I will own one again someday.
I would very much like to try either a Stringmaster, reverbmaster or the Twinmaster.

 

[sickboy79]

So between the last 3, which one would you get?
Or would you go with a SD?

Tough question. Toss up between the Stringmaster and Twinmaster. I love the raw simplicity of the Twinmaster. Easy to dial in from clean to mean. Thick and fat tones. Stringmaster is like an extension of it. Couldn't go wrong with any of them. I don't use reverb much so I would lean towards the other two.

 

[Dave B]

Since @macmax77 is interested in an early Budda, here goes...

.....Series I = Hand wired / PTP and no mid pull control and cab switching (really cool feature).....

Definitely! The Cab Switching between the Main and Auxiliary speaker jacks is known as Lead Linking, and is only activated/controllable by the footswitches of the amps it resided in - Stringmaster, Dual Stage 30, and early Superdrive 30.

.....Verbmaster = Twinmaster plus really nice reverb.....

Here on TGP from 'back in the day', when there was more Budda non-MV chit chat, those that owned both a Twinmaster 18W and a Verbmaster 18W said that the TM could generate more grind than the VM.

.....Stringmaster is the next extension of the Twinmaster with more features. Built in attenuator, boost switch, and essentially a Twinmaster channel and a higher gain channel/mode.....

The Stringmaster and the Twinmaster (as well as the Verbmaster, Verbmaster 30, Twinmaster Plus, and Dual Stage 30), all shared the same basic preamp topology with the Normal and Hi Gain inputs, using a single 12AX7WB (V1a was Normal, and V1a into V1b was Hi Gain), and Bass and Treble controls. On the Stringmaster, those two inputs became a single input with footswitchable channels, with the Hi Gain channel having a separate Level control (actually was an attenuator and not an MV), which let you balance out your cleaner and overdriven sounds between channels.

Here's the huge difference between all of their non-MV models: The Twinmaster and Verbmaster were both 18W and used two EL84s. The others were all 30W, though they achieved it in different ways. The Stringmaster and Twinmaster Plus used four EL84s; the Verbmaster 30 used two 6L6s, though a couple were built with four EL84s; the Dual Stage 30 used two separate footswitchable power amp sections - one had four EL84s and the other had two 6L6s. All but the Verbmaster 30 mercifully have a built-in attenuator for the Hi Gain side.

Theses non-MV amps all fell into the same tonal and grind camps (despite the power tube differences) and standard controls and feature sets (but with the slight differences between models (boost switch here, bright switch there, etc.). The good thing is that regardless of which of these you may want if decide to pursue one (since there aren't that many out there and they don't come up that often), if you hear one of these, you pretty much know about 98% what the other ones are going to sound like. If you like their general sound, you could be happy with any of them sonically, but you may have to decide if one will meet your musical needs better than the others, and may wind up waiting a while until one pops up for sale.

One cool feature of the Stringmaster not found on the other models is a footswitchable tube-driven Parallel Effects Loop with Send and Return levels, located circuit-wise in front of the preamp(?). This was in addition to the regular post-preamp fixed series effects loop found on all of their other non-MV models. It could be used as a built-in boost if you didn't put anything in line.

As for the series effects loop... since there isn't much gain coming from the preamp, if you want overdrive, they need cranked up, and get quite loud; if you aren't using that loop for effects, you can stick a volume pedal in there as a pseudo-MV. I think it does as good of a job, or better, than some of the attenuators out there.

Availability: Relatively speaking, they made way more 18W TM's (a thousand-ish?), followed by the 18W VM's. There were only about 100 SM's, 50 DS30's, god knows how few VM30's, and 15-ish TM+'s.

.....Stringmaster.....Predecessor to the Superdrive series.....

The predecessor to the Superdrives was rooted in the dual 12AX7WB Phatman overdrive pedal, and its sibling Zenman and Phatbass dual-tubed pedals. Those four tube stages became the foundation of the Drive channel on the Superdrives. The SD's Rhythm channel used two tube stages.

.....All were hand wired/PTP.....

Amen to that for all of the above-mention non-master volume amps!

 

[corbs]

This thread makes me want to hook up my SD 30 and bang out some rawk!

 

[voodoosound]

In my experience of owning 3 stringmasters they are more of a "refined" amp in its tone. More responsive kind of like a D amp which many years ago they used to be referred to as the D on a budget. They don't get into the SuperDrive heavier tones but they do more sparkle and shimmer. Plus they have many more variables then just the twinmaster. I didn't find the twinmaster and the stringmaster to be all that similar.

My favorite was the dual30. Though I loved ALL the incarnations of the SuperDrive.

The 1s and 2s all sound pretty identical. Some say the peavey circuit is different. It may be but it sounds close enough to be non noticeable in blindfold. At least 30 and 80 we compared.

 

[HoboMan]

Differences between series I & II SDs has already been answered but there's also Pre-Peavey & Peavey.
One difference between these two is the SD18s impedance options for speaker cabs.
Pre-Peavey only had 8 & 4 ohm. It appears the Peavey models have 4, 8 & 16 ohm.

When it came down to selling my Budda amps I ended up keeping one SD30 instead of an SD18 based on that one difference.
I personally preferred the tone of the 18 over the 30 (very slight difference) but wanted to have the 16 ohm option.

 

[sickboy79]

In my experience of owning 3 stringmasters they are more of a "refined" amp in its tone. More responsive kind of like a D amp which many years ago they used to be referred to as the D on a budget. They don't get into the SuperDrive heavier tones but they do more sparkle and shimmer. Plus they have many more variables then just the twinmaster. I didn't find the twinmaster and the stringmaster to be all that similar.

My favorite was the dual30. Though I loved ALL the incarnations of the SuperDrive.

The 1s and 2s all sound pretty identical. Some say the peavey circuit is different. It may be but it sounds close enough to be non noticeable in blindfold. At least 30 and 80 we compared.

I've heard a few folks say that about the Stringmaster. I'd love to own one someday. I do know that Scott Sier, one of the original Budda guys with Jeff Bober, told me that it was the amp that was the next step to the SD series. I guess I can see that as it came from the Twinmaster, etc...and IMO, the SD series Rhythm channel can get very Twinmaster like when pushed hard.

 

[sickboy79]

Differences between series I & II SDs has already been answered but there's also Pre-Peavey & Peavey.
One difference between these two is the SD18s impedance options for speaker cabs.
Pre-Peavey only had 8 & 4 ohm. It appears the Peavey models have 4, 8 & 16 ohm.

When it came down to selling my Budda amps I ended up keeping one SD30 instead of an SD18 based on that one difference.
I personally preferred the tone of the 18 over the 30 (very slight difference) but wanted to have the 16 ohm option.

I wonder if that impedance difference between the two means it's a different transformer?

 

[Dave B]

In my experience of owning 3 Stringmasters they are more of a "refined" amp in its tone. More responsive kind of like a D amp which many years ago they used to be referred to as the D on a budget. They don't get into the SuperDrive heavier tones but they do more sparkle and shimmer. Plus they have many more variables then just the Twinmaster. I didn't find the Twinmaster and the Stringmaster to be all that similar.....

Thanks voodoo for the tonal info on the SM! I've only had opportunities with the TM, DS30, and currently the TM+.

One of the things everyone could call out, to benefit folks reading about the non-MV Buddas, is which input you are using. There are rather large differences in the equation, attributable to your choice of input channel, as that governs whether one is going through one, or both, stages of V1. Those non-MV Buddas do not have a lot of gain introduced by the lone preamp tube (which makes them dirt pedal champs on low to mid-volume settings). though, the 12AX7WB they were built around, can get quite thick and creamy.

Another factor that contributes mightily is is where you set the amp's volume level, since the EL84s wind up carrying most of the drive load at the mid and high volume settings.

So for you folks doing the comparisons of the non-MV amps to Dumbles, or to your SD's Rhythm Channel, what input are you using, and where is your volume set at?

For you Stringmaster players, if going through the Hi Gain channel, where to you have your Boost or Phat controls set at to get into Dumble-land?

I, too, would love to hear a Stringmaster some day; the Stringmaster that's been on Reverb since last fall has Bober's hand-written silver-Sharpie serial number scuffed out, which has me running in the other direction.

 

[macmax77]

Differences between series I & II SDs has already been answered but there's also Pre-Peavey & Peavey.
One difference between these two is the SD18s impedance options for speaker cabs.
Pre-Peavey only had 8 & 4 ohm. It appears the Peavey models have 4, 8 & 16 ohm.

When it came down to selling my Budda amps I ended up keeping one SD30 instead of an SD18 based on that one difference.
I personally preferred the tone of the 18 over the 30 (very slight difference) but wanted to have the 16 ohm option.

Both my pre peavey SD80's had the 3 options.

 

[LesPaulPlayer]

I own 3 old Buddas:

1. An original tweed-style mounted Twinmaster 1x12 combo I purchased used; these originally came loaded with a Celestion Vintage 30. This used one had a Celestion G12H30 - I installed an 8 ohm Budda Phat 12.
2. A Verbmaster 18 1x12 combo from 2000 that I purchased new. All stock. 4 ohm or 8 ohm impedance selector.
3. A Series I (hand wired and cabinet switching feature, no mid pull Modern switch) Superdrive 30 head from 2001, purchased used. It had been modified with the popular Volume Mod but I reverted it to stock. 4 - 8 - 16 ohm impedance selector. I usually play this through the VM's combo cabinet at 8 ohms.

Some random notes:

• The Twinmaster and Verbmaster are in the same tonal ballpark when using the same speaker and cabinet. The TM has a bit more gain, a bit more touch sensitivity and is generally a bit more punchy and immediate. A bit tighter. This makes sense as the VM has more circuitry (and therefore, more insertion losses) and two more preamp tubes to power (for the reverb driver and recovery/mix). Since the power transformer is the same as the TM's (confirmed by Jeff Bober), this would have an effect on power supply regulation and, sure enough, the VM has saggier dynamic characteristics when cranked way up in the High Gain input, especially with humbuckers.
• The TM is slightly more scooped sounding with a bigger bass and crisper, more sparkly treble response. Not a huge difference but noticeable when compared to each other. The TM is equipped with Sprague/SBE 715P Orange Drop capacitors which Jeff used before approximately 2000. These have a sonic signature that seem to match what I hear. Conversely, the VM uses Xicon MMP in place instead of the Orange Drops. It comes across as having a fatter midrange with a High Gain input crunch that's somehow "more gnarly" and aggressive. It's a bit rattier and dirty. The TM holds together better in the High Gain input and, therefore, doesn't get as raunchy. It stays sounding "pretty" within in the context of Budda Non Master Volume tone.
• The TM is in the original tweed style small chassis. The VM (and SD) are is the larger chassis that has become the norm. This means the internal parts and wiring layout are hugely different even though the basic circuit (minus reverb) is the same.
• The TM's original smaller tweed-mount cabinet has noticeably more mid bass punch than the VM's 1x12" cab, and not just a little. It also seems to have less midrange, but the speakers are different (but same model, different units). This effect further "scoops" the tone the Twinmaster when it's used in its original cabinet. I can still get what I want by adjusting the bass and treble but the settings are different than what I would use to get a similar sound on the VM as you might imagine.
• The other obvious difference is the reverb on the VM which is excellent. The VM does, however, have quite a bit more background hiss when idle. This hiss increases with higher volume and reverb settings but, like the TM, is virtually eliminated when fully cranked in the Normal Input.
• These differences don't make the TM or VM better than the other. They are just different flavors of the old Budda NMV tone and I may like one more than the other at any given time depending on what I'm looking for.
• The SD30 is a completely different thing altogether. It's a different tone and response. It has significantly more gain potential, is less dynamic, less responsive, thinner, less beefy, and has a cleaner, smoother presentation. It doesn't get as raunchy as the TM or VM. More modern. Not as old school or vintage. A wider range of static tones available from its two channels, Rhythm Brite switch and 3-band EQ.
• The SD Rhythm channel is voiced kind of like the TM and VM amp. Same signature of tonality. I can get in the ballpark but since I have the TM/VM at my disposal, I never use the SD for that sound because the TM/VM do it much better. I use the SD when I want what its Drive channel does (higher gain) or when I don't want to bring an attenuator (which the TM or VM needs in my context of use). The SD is more convenient because of this. I don't generally use it as a channel switcher. I also don't take advantage of its cab switching feature. I'm not taking advantage of everything this amp has to offer. It sounds better the louder it is...which somewhat defeats the purpose of the master volume. Easier to play. Not as revealing of mistakes. Not as transparent. Less of that original Budda philosophy if you know your Budda history. Guitar volume pot roll down results in the tone becoming much brighter, but thinner and compressed with a greater volume reduction.
• In my very humble opinion, I believe the NMV Buddas are where it's at for my kind of playing. I don't use many effects. Only a wah pedal sometimes and the VMs reverb when using that amp. Mostly, I'll play entire sets plugged straight in with nothing else and get all my clean, crunch and lead from the guitar pots, pickup selector and playing technique/dynamics. Rolling the guitar volume down results in a clear, spanky, snappy tone with punch and fullness intact. With this kind of approach, the TM and VM just give me more of everything I'm looking for. More response, more punch, more complexity, more richness, more expression, more of me in the resulting tone. More of an extension of myself.

An observation about impedance selectors. All the new Peavey combos appear to have 4-8-16 ohm selectors as mentioned earlier in this thread. My old VM combo is only 4-8 ohm but my old SD head is 4-8-16.

Since a combo chassis is usually used with its built-in speaker, it makes sense to limit the impedances to 4 or 8 ohms to eliminate a harmful impedance mismatch to the output transformer (assuming an 8 ohm speaker as was factory-loaded in my VM). A head, however, needs complete flexibility in being matched to a wide range of potential cabinets, hence, the inclusion of 16 ohms on the switch.

I've seen evidence of Peavey Buddas including a 16 ohm setting even on its 1x12" combos with an 8 ohm speaker. If the switch got accidentally bumped to 16, the OT could be damaged. Or someone might deliberately switch it to 16 ohms not knowing it might be problematic. The original lack of a 16 ohm setting eliminated that potential issue.

 

[LesPaulPlayer]

This is the best Stringmaster demo I've seen. He's getting all the tonal variety from only one amp setting.

 

[sickboy79]

This is the best Stringmaster demo I've seen. He's getting all the tonal variety from only one amp setting.

Not many clips/vids out there on the Stringmaster. Good stuff here. Dig it a lot. Would love to own one!

 

[Dave B]

.....Dig it a lot. Would love to own one!

Your wish is our command! This one has been sitting out here for almost a year, but for some reason I never noticed it until last month.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192520448177?ul_noapp=true
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...udda-stringmaster-1x12-combo-on-ebay.2043143/

If I hadn't just picked up a DS30 in March, I was sorely tempted to snatch this, but it would have been hard to justify to the Better Half.

As I've never experienced a Stringmaster, I'm still hoping @voodoosound will chime in with his settings he used on his three. That circuit includes the multi-position bright switch (or Phat control on the later models) plus the capability to use the SM's Parallel Efx Loop as a boost, versus the DS30's Hi Gain Bite control.

 

[sickboy79]

Your wish is our command! This one has been sitting out here for almost a year, but for some reason I never noticed it until last month.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192520448177?ul_noapp=true
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...udda-stringmaster-1x12-combo-on-ebay.2043143/

If I hadn't just picked up a DS30 in March, I was sorely tempted to snatch this, but it would have been hard to justify to the Better Half.

As I've never experienced a Stringmaster, I'm still hoping @voodoosound will chime in with his settings he used on his three. That circuit includes the multi-position bright switch (or Phat control on the later models) plus the capability to use the SM's Parallel Efx Loop as a boost, versus the DS30's Hi Gain Bite control.

Very cool! There's a head on Reverb as well (I'd prefer a head). But, just isn't the right time right now. Good price on this one too. Hopefully someone snags it.