Buffer blues

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by ToneRanger, Feb 8, 2006.


  1. ToneRanger

    ToneRanger Member

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    Okay, my pedalboard is nearing completion... Timmy on the way still, but now it's time to seriously think about the pedal order. I have the basic order worked out ofcourse, but I'm thinking where I should place my Boss TU-2.. I've got only two pedals with buffers in my board, the Boss and a Hot Cake. I read somewhere that a buffer should be placed first in the chain.. True? Is the Boss buffer any good? And whatabout the Hot Cakes buffer?

    What if I have two buffers? Will I end up with some sort of weird superbufferdrama? I just don't get this s***. Basicly: how do two or more buffers react to each other?

    Okay, what I'm thinking right now is
    TU-2 -> COT -> Timmy -> EGDM -> Eternity -> Hot Cake -> SCP -> Memory Man -> Amp..

    I used to have the TU-2 at the end of the chain but at the last rehearsals I moved it to the front and A/B:d it with it being last and I couldnt here a noticeable difference.. Help me out here. What's theoretically right, at least..?
     
  2. stratovarius

    stratovarius Supporting Member

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    Buffers should have no trouble playing well together. The only issue I have ever had with buffers is when using traditional fuzz pedals which want to see a guitar-like signal. Other than that, the only question seems to be whether the buffer itself degrades the tone.

    I asked Pete Cornish about buffer placement and he said it's best to have one buffer at the beginning and another at the end of your effects chain.
     
  3. teddy boy

    teddy boy Member

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    I just talked to David of D*A*M about it and he said a buffer may cause trouble in front of fuzzes. I'm not exactly sure how a COT50 works but it may be affected. Not sure! This one puzzles me too. Especially the two buffers thing...
     
  4. ToneRanger

    ToneRanger Member

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    What about the COT 'cause I don't use it as a fuzz (although it does the fuzz thing really well) in live use? I just don't get this stuff, the info about it is so confusing..
     
  5. teddy boy

    teddy boy Member

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    I guess it depends what the circuit is based on. Is the COT50 really a fuzz that you can just tame or something?
     
  6. stratovarius

    stratovarius Supporting Member

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    I don't really understand it either, but the idea is that a high impedance signal is more susceptible to signal loss due to cable capacitance than is a low impedance signal. What comes out of a guitar is a high impedance signal, unlike most other electronic gear you may have. A buffer gives you a low impedance signal that is less vulnerable to degradation.

    Electronic components that are connected together tend to interact, but buffers counteract this. In the case of fuzz pedals this can change how they behave. I don't know about the COT.
     
  7. stratovarius

    stratovarius Supporting Member

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    By the way, I am currently having this very issue with one of my fuzzes. I am looking into some sort of switcher so that I can hit the fuzz without passing through a buffer. I'm open to suggestions!
     
  8. erksin

    erksin Member

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    I think your chain should be fine as is - the only recommendation I would make is to move the Timmy to the last OD slot so you can better utilize it's killer EQ when/if you stack ODs...

    If the TU-2 messes with the COT just place it after it.

    The Hot Cake has an excellent buffer - no problems there.
     
  9. Pedro58

    Pedro58 Supporting Member

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    Don't beat yourself up over this. You don't have to know how the buffers work to make them work. All I can give you is the benefit of a little more experience and knowledge, assuming I have it. Follow the good advice already posted here to give you a starting point for the order in your effects chain. In the end, move pedals around and take copious notes as you do so. Gig on 'em, rehearse with 'em. Don't be afraid to move them into a configuration that defies all advice. You might like what you hear. Your ear will tell you if you like it, and your noted will tell you what you did and how to get back to what you liked before you experimented and didn't like the results.
     
  10. albuht813

    albuht813 Member

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    good post Pedro58. that said, the axess BS2 is a great buffer. I place it after my wah and fuzz and has given my signal life again. After I included it in the chain, I wondered how I could've survived with my mushy sound before.
     
  11. erksin

    erksin Member

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    I also use the BS-2, but only because I have no other buffered effects - the Hot Cake performed the buffering job before I got the BS-2 and it worked great in that application. Very high quality box...

    If you do ever wind up getting rid of the Hot Cake, I would highly recommend the BS-2 - the high quality buffer plus the ability to split your signal and have a tuner out makes it a very useful tool.
     
  12. ToneRanger

    ToneRanger Member

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    Thanks for all the input guys. I guess the only way to really know is to try different combinations.. To make this more confusing I'm getting a fuzz aswell on my board now :) That must go first then I guess.

    Where can you buy this BS-2? How much?
     
  13. erksin

    erksin Member

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    www.axess-electronics.com

    And yes, put the fuzz first, or just after your wah if you have one...
     
  14. lcjc800

    lcjc800 Member

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    It,s a 4 loop, loooper, with tuner mute. The pedals are split up into 4 groups , Boost's, O.D.'s, Distortion and Fuzzes. The KLON is in the first loop to utilize the buffer when needed and remain bypass-able when using a Fuzz pedal that might not like the low impedance signal.:YinYang__________________
    [​IMG]
    In another thread I had posted my use of a the buffer in my KLON, I put the KLON in the first loop so that on or off it can be place in or out of the signal path. The Fuzzes (loop4) and sometimes the EMMA and Fuzz Head (loop3) don't like the buffered signal(depending on the bias setting). It seems to craze the sound and make it hard to control.otherwise I use the VooDoo vibe's buffer for the back end when needed.
     
  15. michael.e

    michael.e Supporting Member

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    I would say "get rid of the buffers" I don't like what they do to the response of my tone.
    If you are going to use one, use it at the tail end. Better yet, put it in at the tail end of a loop.

    I got rid of all my buffered pedals and simply leave my COT 50 on all the time. The Lovepedal is pushing a TC Jauring Luxury Drive. That combo is the closest to "plugged in" response as I have ever heard. My Strat is warm and woody, with lots of chime and sparkle. M.E.
     
  16. ToneRanger

    ToneRanger Member

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    Michael, I've thought about this as well.. I've been fantasizing about getting a Klon that I'd leave on all the time. Though I've heard praises of the Klons buffer as well. The COT is on almost all the time, but I still like to play a bit cleaner from time to time. Maybe I could keep the Timmy on all the time, we'll see when it gets here.

    I've also considered a looper.. The problem with that is that I've got pedals with no ac jacks, the COT and in the future the BBB too. It would also double the amount of George L's and those don't come cheap!
     
  17. Frethog

    Frethog Member

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    I was using an Axess BS-2, but if I decide to put my new Klon at the start of the chain, should I remove the BS-2?
     
  18. doomy3

    doomy3 Member

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    Is the Ernie Ball volume jr. (passive) considered a buffer? I was planning on putting it first, but would that interfere with my Fuzz Factory? Also, does the volume pedal COMPLETELY take the tuner (TU-2) out of the chain other than when you mute everything?
     
  19. erksin

    erksin Member

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    I guess it depends on how many pedals you're running and whether or not you can hear a difference without the BS-2 in your chain. If you decide to keep it, put it last - you can split to a second amp or run a tuner out of the other output. I have three buffered effects now out of a chain of nine, I keep the BS-2 last in the chain to ensure a strong signal to the amps...
     
  20. billygoat

    billygoat Member

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    I don't know if it will mess with your fuzz factory, but i am almost sure that the tu-2 remains in the loop. Last month I was in the studio where it was quiet and my amp was loud, and when i was tuning I could hear clicking when the led's on my tuner lit up and I had my volume all the way down with the tuner plugged into the tuner out of the ernie ball pedal.

    I suspect the volume pedal is a bit of a tone sucker, and I'd love to get rid of it but I need it for my lapsteel work. Right now it is after my drives but before my delay with a buffer before it.

     

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