Building IEM mixes

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by Gasp100, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Tonight is the night, a rare rehearsal (in a great space) and I'm bringing the whole PA rig (mains, sub, Mackie DL1608, stands, mic's, cables). I hate to think I'm paying for a great room that already has killer gear when I really could rent out someones garage for this one, but it needs to be done :)
    We will be testing incorporating backing tracks so getting proper IEM mixes is of utmost importance tonight.
    The one factor I can't control is drum micing - I guess tonight I need to decide if I'm going to go kick, snare, overheard or just kick snare... I suppose the proper way to build the IEM mix is to get everything into the board at correct levels, then work on a BASIC IEM mix, then customize everyone's personal mix and snapshot it.
    It would be amazing if we can get this done (which I think we can, we have already done several gigs with IEMS) but get levels really comfortable. Then all I would have to do is recall the snapshot and bring up the Master Fader for a show...
    :dude
    EDIT: If my players bring their iPads I will setup the configuration so they can control their own IEM mix as well, but I need a very good snapshot of general settings first.
     
  2. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    Start w/kick - maybe get it to peak at -10dB

    Bring in Sn to the same level.

    OHs to fill it out.

    Bass, to same level as Kick.

    Ld Vox, so you can hear every word.

    Fill in other instruments, to taste.

    BG Vox, 3dB down from Ld Vox for main mix.

    I'd take a snapshot of this, and then set up Aux mixes for each player that feeds them that mix, and will let them control their own vocal and instrument level - try to make it foolproof and make sure there's a limiter on each Aux.
     
  3. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    AWESOME! Copied for tonight! Thanks man!

    :aok
     
  4. geetarplayer

    geetarplayer Member

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    Remind everyone to PAN their mixes. It opens up your head. Otherwise it can turn to mush real fast. Obviously, hard pan stereo instruments like keys, etc... but even if you don't have any of those, pan stuff to put some air between your ears. The only things I keep fully center are my vocal, my instrument, kick, bass.
     
  5. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    I'm not sure he's running stereo mixes?
     
  6. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Correct mono only. Rehearsal space owner said to just bring mixer / IEM RIG and we'll take main out L/R of my mixer into their gear (which is awesome!)
    Do you think I should try and talk venues with house systems using same approach?
     
  7. loudboy

    loudboy Member

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    Nope, I've never seen this work, unless it's a karaoke or tracks gig.

    Surefire way to piss off the house soundguy, and there's slim to no chance that you'll be able to get as good a mix from the stage.
     
  8. Badside

    Badside Member

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    You know, since setting up IEM mixes quickly every time can be troublesome, I have been thinking about using a digital mixer with remote control and just handing out the resident sound guy a tablet. Quick setup (eq, comp, gain, reverb, all preconfigured) and he can still adjust the FoH mix for the venue. I'm talking smaller venues here where monitor mixes are typically limited and house board is likely an old 16 inputs analog mid-range board (which is most of our gigs)
     
  9. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    For IEMs don't you kinda need all the drums miked?
     
  10. ceeinwa

    ceeinwa Member

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    I know rack 1 is really important for my mix... :phones

    Seriously, there should be enough bleed from snare and OH to make most people happy.
     
  11. Badside

    Badside Member

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    I always mic the bass drum anyway. Add an OH if needed and your IEM mix will sound fine, don't need to send that OH to the FoH.

    I tend to always mic the toms and snare even in small venues, sounds so much better. The bleed from those gives me a pretty good image of the kit in the IEMs.

    A lot of people are afraid of going of going IEM because apparently it's so hard to get a good mix. But I'd rather have an imperfect IEM mix, than wedge monitors blaring at me trying to fight against the wash from the cymbals.
     
  12. ceeinwa

    ceeinwa Member

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    I agree. *∞ and then one more...
     
  13. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    I always mic ALL the drums. Both snares, both kicks, three Roto toms, two high toms, two floor toms, both Hi-hats and two overhead condensers.

    No I never get feedback or excessive stage bleed. Drummer went on a Rolls a month ago, before that PR15s propped up behind him. I dislike IEMs and am more than happy with wedges.
     
  14. ceeinwa

    ceeinwa Member

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    That's great. We're just saying there are alternatives to a mic on every drum. :wave
     
  15. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    Sure there are. They sound worse but :dunno
     
  16. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    sure, except when they sound better ;)

    lots of mics jammed close together means lots of phase weirdness (each drum gets into multiple mics, all at different distances), there's no free lunch here; sometimes it's fine, and sometimes fewer mics and a more ambient setup actually sounds better.
     
  17. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    Yeah, some guys laughed when I said I had 12 mics on the drum kit a few years ago. Come to one of our shows. Drums sound bad ass. I have never had any problems and I have had at least 2 well respected sound guys compliment my work. For the record, I only started using the overheads recently when my drummer went to IEMs, but our last show, the first one with both Yorkville subs, my wife said she couldn't hear the cymbals bash. Also, the mics aren't really close to each other and they are all pretty close to the drums they are miking. Hats are miked from the bottom, kicks are on internal mounts, no holes in the heads. Like I said, I have never had phase issues, feedback or excessive mic bleed.

    Either way, I'll take my way over a little kick and an overhead anyday.
     
  18. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    fair enough, "kick+overhead" ≠ hard rock PA setup, unless it was 1968 i guess.

    close-mic'ing, internal mic'ing, gates, and tricks to block mics from other stuff all serve to help isolate things.

    i'm hardly an expert here, but i'm thinking of stuff like if you have two toms with tom mics right next to each other, you can put the mics close together pointed away from each other, so that each mic is aimed at its own drum but away from the other drum.

    one good trick i learned which nobody seems to think about is placing the hat mic so that the hat itself "eclipses" the snare, is in-between the hat mic and the snare, so as to try and get some of the snare out of that mic.
     
  19. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    Tom mics are back to back, as you said. One snare is well away from everything and as I said, the hi hats are miked from the bottom and the one next to the snare is facing away from it.

    No gates.
     
  20. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Member

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    The coolest part is that once I got it set up, I taught my drummer what was up and I don't have to mess with it at all. He runs his own mics and just hands me the XLRs.
     

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