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Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by MattC, Dec 18, 2017.
This is exactly why retailers advertise Free Shipping, though not truly free.
I dont go for hidden charges.
If the price and the shipping are not disclosed, I dont buy.
Hidden fees are what car dealers pull.
If someone tried to hit me with transaction fees, I would cancel the sale and walk away.
Wording it that way has the potential to annoy buyers. The seller should just price the item properly to get what he or she wants as well as cover those fees if that's the goal. If the total is too much the buyer will pass.
It's the new way of saying "I need to get $x out of this sale". Because when you say that, people tend to look right past it and go to their bottom line. Which is fine, but that phrase, to me, means to remember that this isn't a volume sale from a retailer, it's a 1:1 transaction, and the seller has certain needs as well.
Buyers, me included, tend to lump everything in with the price we're paying. For example, a $900 guitar, with shipping and fees, will end up at around +/-$975. The unthinking buyer will knee-jerk to "that's outrageous and not what others are selling for", forgetting the breakdown.
I appreciate knowing what the seller wants out of the piece and we can negotiate on that, and then figure out the rest together. I know I'm eating the shipping and if the price on the guitar is a good deal, I'll offer to split the fees in order to have a pleasant transaction.
Then again, I'm not penny-pinching and I'll pay an extra $20-30 for a good experience on a $1K piece.
You are, of course, correct. I think that there are other tells as to whether this is poor phrasing versus belligerent phrasing.
The other thing to consider about this thread is that there seems to be a whole lot of projecting going on, and sometimes it says as much (or more) about the way someone receives info as the way someone else delivers it.
As a buyer, I don't like seeing that and yes it does tend to have a pretentious vibe to it. But ultimately I work out a final sale price in conversation ahead of time.
As a seller, I just list one out-the-door price and just figure those costs when determining my selling price. Sometimes I get lucky on shipping if buyer is close, sometimes I eat a bit when they're on the opposite coast. It all works out.
Amigo30's Super-Successful Professional Sales Tips that he should charge you for:
Having been involved in sales my whole life, I can share the #1 rule of being successful at it. Ready? People buy from people they like.
When the seller starts off with a laundry list of nickel and dime fees and already confrontational demands - buyers don't get the "warm-fuzzies" from them and they just move on.
You can't blame them. Who needs more hassles and aholes in their life? Nobody, that's who.
Now - as a SELLER - you can say anything you want to say, but HOW you say it matters. It matters a lot.
Instead of saying "I need to clear $1000.00 and buyer pays shipping and handling and paypal and packing fees, and the price is firm so don't low-ball me and I need to sell it by Tuesday so you better hurry up!" I'll just keep it for myself if you're gonna be a dick and not buy it, loser!
Try saying: "This cool item is yours for $1200.00 shipped within 24 hours after purchasing, nicely packed, I promise. You can be rockin' the blooze with this by Tuesday. You deserve it".
THEN what is going to happen is somebody is going to ask for a discount, because people like discounts. It's not that they can't afford it, it's that they need to FEEL they got a deal and that they "won". I can't stress how important that is to buyer psychology.
So a potential buyer is going to offer $1050 for your item. You respond with "That's just a bit lower than I can go because WOW! shipping is expensive these day, y'know? But this one is PRISTINE and has an upgraded string-tree - I can tell you really want it so you can Paypal me $1100.00 this evening and you'll be the next Stevie Ray Vaughn. I'll throw in a free guitar pick AND I'll polish it up for you. Did I mention I've got the original box? I'll bubble-wrap it all up like a champ. So when you send the cash I'll send you tracking within an hour."
They say - "Cool- here's my money".
End result? The seller got the same amount they wanted, nobody had to jump through hoops, everybody is happy and feels good about each other.
So you see what Mr. Successful Seller did there?
He built enough into his asking price to cover all of the expected expenses and discounts and haggling right up front. Then he kept everything upbeat, positive and easy for the buyer. He gave the buyer a discount, offered service and extra's to make the buyer feel good, and overcame all objections. The seller even overcame the UNSPOKEN objection that the buyer had - that buying this would be a mistake and he might get ripped off.
He did a few other things in there as well - he "assumed the close" (acting as if the buyer had already agreed to the purchase and was just working out the details), and he made it seem as if $1200 was the most reasonable asking price ever that everybody pays - but then gave a great deal to the buyer, but a lot of the extra value was low-cost or free extra's - a pick, a polish, a string tree, an email with tracking, a box, some bubble-wrap. And he kept alluding that the item was great and something that buyer would be happy with. The seller played to the quality of the deal, not the price. The seller hit all the points to make the buyer FEEL good and secure about buying it.
Bam! Item sold. Got the $$ he wanted. Good feedback. The buyer is now a friend. No posts about the flakey rude seller.
If TGP has taught me anything it’s that poor sellers are the innocent victims subjected only to tire kickers, low ballers, chiselers, scammers, various local, state, national and international government agencies, shipping companies, guitar center and barometric pressure.
It’s just people who are bad at math and can’t do percentages. Still lame to not just include it in the price.
Charging a buyer fees for using Paypal is strictly prohibited by the Paypal user agreement, and doing so can get your account closed.
Just build it into your sales price unless you want to risk losing access to Paypal.
Listings that demand surcharges for Paypal just stink of disrepute in my opinion. If the seller is willing to flaut the Paypal user agreement right in the listing, what other rules do they think don't apply to them?
The only number I care about is how much to get it on my doorstep. I don’t care what the components of that number are, just what the total is.
Added fees just prompt me to move on.
Agreed, and the cost of protection against some of the more unscrupulous sellers out there. I think in large purchases, splitting the fee is reasonable for the convenience the seller gets and the protection the buyer gets.
What is that?
Sure, me too.
On the flip side, I've seen and been involved in numerous instances of either disingenuous or or dumb people who think that I'm getting the whole total they send to me, as if fees and shipping costs don't exist. Then topping it off with a complaint about how much I'm asking when the 'going rate' is $100 less - thereby comparing apples and anvils.
Sometimes it's a no-win PITA, which is why I'm sitting on 3 or 4 I should sell, but I just don't have the stomach for it right now.
Good grief, why is there 8 pages worth of this being argued too? Just add up the total costs and ask yourself is it worth it to you as a buyer? Why would the freakin physiology of how seller presents a number to a buyer matter?
Simply, there is an item, with a total price or aggregate price, and the buyer either feels the total end cost is worth it or not.
Because people often make decisions based on emotion rather than logic. They often make those decisions subconsciously before they're even aware of it. Psychology is EVERYTHING in sales.
Case in point - You even had a negative emotional reaction before you wrote your post:
This thread didn't sell itself to you properly.
Sellers: Man, the market is slow!
Buyers: You're selling a used guitar for about the new price, as well as charging PayPal and shipping fees.
Sellers: Man, the market is slow!